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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 10:22am
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I don't think any tapping can really be considered "physically assisting". I think the intent of "physically assisting" was more along the lines of pushing the runner in a direction, helping the runner stop or turn (or get up), etc. By the strict dictionary definition of the rules, I can see a stretch to include a tap - but I truly don't think that could have been the intent of the rule-writers.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike 
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 11:00am
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Kudos to Dakota Tom
 Well, Tom gets the trophy for seeing the play as I envisioned it and making the "right" call. A NOTE ABOUT Umpire's Nightmares Umpire's Nightmare's are ficticious situations that I cook up in my addled barin from time to time when the board gets slow. They are game situations which could happen in a game but probably won't.  They are complicated situations and generally involve a number of red herrings  like the batter backing up and one nugget  which allows one to unravel the play. Their intent is to make you think about softball during the off season, maybe crack open a book or two and to spark some discussion.CAVEAT The "correct" answers to the UNs are based on my interpretation of the rules, and since I AM NOT a certified rules guru, my interpretations have occasionally been wrong in the past, but hey. I like learning too. Anyway, I hope you enjoy them. SamC
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 11:28am
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I'm at work, don't have the rule book, defining catching ball off an offensive runner. However I don't see anything wrong with coach tap, stepping backwards by BR, etc. I say the play stands until I get the scoop on this catch thing !
. Whats the rule state on one off an offensive player after being touched by the defense. Is it a trap ? Maybe thats what should had been called.
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 11:39am
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It's a no catch.
The main sticking point here is the tap. Some of us believe that was inconsequential to the play, and others are including it in the definition of "physically assisting the runner". It's a good discussion.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 11:47am
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Chuck,
The relevant rules regarding the "catch" by F2 are: ASA Rule 1-Catch-e: A ball which strikes anything other than a defensive player while it is in-flight is ruled the same as if it had struck the ground. and ASA Rule 8.8.F: the runner is NOT out when the runner is hit by fair batted ball after it touches or is touched by any fielder, including the pitcher, and the runner could not avoid contact with the ball. Hope this clears up that part of the play for you. SamC
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 11:52am
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Interpretation of rule one please. Is this ball still "in flight" after it was touched by the pitcher ?. Everyone is saying no catch..but I am wondering ?
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 12:00pm
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I don't have my ASA book with me at work, but I believe there is also a definition for "in flight" to answer your question as to whether or not the ball was still "in flight."
Ed
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Be Advised: We DO Shoot the Messenger!
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 12:01pm
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From the most overlooked, ignored, and generally considered boring section of the rule book...
RULE 1 - THE DEFINITIONS IN FLIGHT. In flight is the term used for any batted, thrown or pitched ball which as not yet touched the ground or some object or person other than a fielder.
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Tom
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 12:04pm
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Gentleman, I believe we have an out on the catch. And yes definitions are boring & overlooked.
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 12:07pm
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Quote:
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Tom
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 12:13pm
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Quote:
IN FLIGHT: In flight is the term used for any batted ball which has not yet touched the ground or some object or person other than a fielder Hope that clears it up for you. glen
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 12:15pm
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Quote:
[Edited by Dakota on Nov 7th, 2003 at 11:17 AM]
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Tom
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 12:21pm
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No wonder my originial post on the definition of 'in flight' would
not go....Tom was posting so quickly, his pushed mine back. Sorry for the repeat on the answer. glen
__________________
glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 01:07pm
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There is no doubt that the BR was not retired by the defense. The ball was not legally caught in flight and there is no penalty for a BR stepping backwards toward the plate unless to avoid an obvious tag.
The ONLY question in this play is the physical contact between the coach and BR.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Fri Nov 07, 2003, 03:45pm
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Well, since everybody else has jumped in, I'll add this for physically assisting.
There is a case play (sorry, I don't recall which code, it might even be a BB play) in which R3 tags and stands ready to run facing toward home on a fly ball to left field. As F7 touches the ball, the 3rd base coach "taps" the runner's back to let him know to run. The case play ruled the runner out for being "physically assisted." Roger Greene
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