Foul/fair

[bbman]

3 person.
No one on base.
Batter bunts down the third base line (kind of a little pop up). Third baseman comes in and dives for the bunt, near the line but in fair territory, ball gets touched in fair territory by the third baseman, then rolls foul. Plate ump calls foul ball. Coach challenges the call. Plate ump calls third base ump over to discuss. After short discussion, plate ump changes his call to fair ball.
Is this correct procedure?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bbman

3 person.
No one on base.
Batter bunts down the third base line (kind of a little pop up). Third baseman comes in and dives for the bunt, near the line but in fair territory, ball gets touched in fair territory by the third baseman, then rolls foul. Plate ump calls foul ball. Coach challenges the call. Plate ump calls third base ump over to discuss. After short discussion, plate ump changes his call to fair ball.
Is this correct procedure?

Yes.

And as described it was a fair ball.

[ilyazhito]

What would happen? I would imagine the batter would be placed at 1st base, because there is no legal way the batter can return to bat after hitting a fair ball.

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

What would happen? I would imagine the batter would be placed at 1st base, because there is no legal way the batter can return to bat after hitting a fair ball.

The rule we call umpire jeopardy, USA 10.3.C

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by bbman

3 person.
No one on base.
Batter bunts down the third base line (kind of a little pop up). Third baseman comes in and dives for the bunt, near the line but in fair territory, ball gets touched in fair territory by the third baseman, then rolls foul. Plate ump calls foul ball. Coach challenges the call. Plate ump calls third base ump over to discuss. After short discussion, plate ump changes his call to fair ball.
Is this correct procedure?

Correct procedure - yes as Rich said.
Better procedure - make the correct call.

[bbman]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

The rule we call umpire jeopardy, USA 10.3.C

Is there somewhere in the fed rulebook/casebook on this play?

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by bbman

Is there somewhere in the fed rulebook/casebook on this play?

No. None of the current Rule 10 case plays (USA and Fed) cover changing a foul ball to fair. NCAA allows changing a foul ball to fair for dead ball base awards only.

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by bbman

Is there somewhere in the fed rulebook/casebook on this play?

NFHS 10-2-3-m

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

NFHS 10-2-3-m

rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

I believe we've had a discussion on this board in the past about "un-ringing a foul ball call". While I don't remember specifics, I do recall that several members adamantly argued about the "un-ringing". The tone was that the umpire screwed up and now deserved the ration of $h!t that was coming.

Reading the rule above, is the offensive team put in jeopardy if the umpire calls a foul ball. At that point, all play ceases as we have a dead ball. Sure, with a runner on third base that would have surely scored if the umpire ruled correctly, has that team been "placed in jeopardy"?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

I believe we've had a discussion on this board in the past about "un-ringing a foul ball call". While I don't remember specifics, I do recall that several members adamantly argued about the "un-ringing". The tone was that the umpire screwed up and now deserved the ration of $h!t that was coming.

Reading the rule above, is the offensive team put in jeopardy if the umpire calls a foul ball. At that point, all play ceases as we have a dead ball. Sure, with a runner on third base that would have surely scored if the umpire ruled correctly, has that team been "placed in jeopardy"?

I do not have my books available but I think in NFHS: Once the bell has been rung, calling a Fair Ball Foul, the Ball stays Foul.

MTD, Sr.

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

I believe we've had a discussion on this board in the past about "un-ringing a foul ball call". While I don't remember specifics, I do recall that several members adamantly argued about the "un-ringing". The tone was that the umpire screwed up and now deserved the ration of $h!t that was coming.

Reading the rule above, is the offensive team put in jeopardy if the umpire calls a foul ball. At that point, all play ceases as we have a dead ball. Sure, with a runner on third base that would have surely scored if the umpire ruled correctly, has that team been "placed in jeopardy"?

The OP had no one on base, so I see foul vs. fair as jeopardy.
With a runner on 3rd, a bunt right on the line, I would not judge that the runner would have scored.
If the runner stopped only because of the dead ball status, a difficult problem.

Yes, we have repeatedly discussed "unringing", and usually say no, but this case is about being clearly incorrect.
They never explained why the fair called foul was no corrected in the recent Phillies game, but apparently no one else on the 6 man crew saw it or it's MLB, or ...

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

The OP had no one on base, so I see foul vs. fair as jeopardy.
With a runner on 3rd, a bunt right on the line, I would not judge that the runner would have scored.
If the runner stopped only because of the dead ball status, a difficult problem.

Yes, we have repeatedly discussed "unringing", and usually say no, but this case is about being clearly incorrect.
They never explained why the fair called foul was no corrected in the recent Phillies game, but apparently no one else on the 6 man crew saw it or it's MLB, or ...

Who was put in jeopardy? The batter simply gets another chance to bat (unless 'sno-pitch foul third strike).

A bunt rolling slowly is a much easier call to make than a screamer down a line.

This is different than examples where a runner was put in jeopardy (by being tagged while off a base) because of an umpire's call.

We do need rule support. Rule 10 can be sold with good game management skills. But just because a call was "unfair" (pun intented) doesn't mean it's correct.

A sage person provides this quote:

"It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be."

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

A sage person provides this quote:

"It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be."