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bbman Sun Oct 16, 2022 06:52pm

Foul/fair
 
3 person.
No one on base.
Batter bunts down the third base line (kind of a little pop up). Third baseman comes in and dives for the bunt, near the line but in fair territory, ball gets touched in fair territory by the third baseman, then rolls foul. Plate ump calls foul ball. Coach challenges the call. Plate ump calls third base ump over to discuss. After short discussion, plate ump changes his call to fair ball.
Is this correct procedure?

Rich Ives Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbman (Post 1048972)
3 person.
No one on base.
Batter bunts down the third base line (kind of a little pop up). Third baseman comes in and dives for the bunt, near the line but in fair territory, ball gets touched in fair territory by the third baseman, then rolls foul. Plate ump calls foul ball. Coach challenges the call. Plate ump calls third base ump over to discuss. After short discussion, plate ump changes his call to fair ball.
Is this correct procedure?

Yes.

And as described it was a fair ball.

ilyazhito Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:24pm

What would happen? I would imagine the batter would be placed at 1st base, because there is no legal way the batter can return to bat after hitting a fair ball.

Cecil4 Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1048975)
What would happen? I would imagine the batter would be placed at 1st base, because there is no legal way the batter can return to bat after hitting a fair ball.

The rule we call umpire jeopardy, USA 10.3.C

Cecil4 Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbman (Post 1048972)
3 person.
No one on base.
Batter bunts down the third base line (kind of a little pop up). Third baseman comes in and dives for the bunt, near the line but in fair territory, ball gets touched in fair territory by the third baseman, then rolls foul. Plate ump calls foul ball. Coach challenges the call. Plate ump calls third base ump over to discuss. After short discussion, plate ump changes his call to fair ball.
Is this correct procedure?

Correct procedure - yes as Rich said.
Better procedure - make the correct call. :rolleyes:

bbman Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecil4 (Post 1048977)
The rule we call umpire jeopardy, USA 10.3.C

Is there somewhere in the fed rulebook/casebook on this play?

Crabby_Bob Wed Oct 19, 2022 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbman (Post 1048986)
Is there somewhere in the fed rulebook/casebook on this play?

No. None of the current Rule 10 case plays (USA and Fed) cover changing a foul ball to fair. NCAA allows changing a foul ball to fair for dead ball base awards only.

Cecil4 Thu Oct 20, 2022 09:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbman (Post 1048986)
Is there somewhere in the fed rulebook/casebook on this play?

NFHS 10-2-3-m

Tru_in_Blu Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecil4 (Post 1049018)
NFHS 10-2-3-m

rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

I believe we've had a discussion on this board in the past about "un-ringing a foul ball call". While I don't remember specifics, I do recall that several members adamantly argued about the "un-ringing". The tone was that the umpire screwed up and now deserved the ration of $h!t that was coming.

Reading the rule above, is the offensive team put in jeopardy if the umpire calls a foul ball. At that point, all play ceases as we have a dead ball. Sure, with a runner on third base that would have surely scored if the umpire ruled correctly, has that team been "placed in jeopardy"?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Oct 20, 2022 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1049020)
rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

I believe we've had a discussion on this board in the past about "un-ringing a foul ball call". While I don't remember specifics, I do recall that several members adamantly argued about the "un-ringing". The tone was that the umpire screwed up and now deserved the ration of $h!t that was coming.

Reading the rule above, is the offensive team put in jeopardy if the umpire calls a foul ball. At that point, all play ceases as we have a dead ball. Sure, with a runner on third base that would have surely scored if the umpire ruled correctly, has that team been "placed in jeopardy"?



I do not have my books available but I think in NFHS: Once the bell has been rung, calling a Fair Ball Foul, the Ball stays Foul.

MTD, Sr.

Cecil4 Thu Oct 20, 2022 05:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1049020)
rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

I believe we've had a discussion on this board in the past about "un-ringing a foul ball call". While I don't remember specifics, I do recall that several members adamantly argued about the "un-ringing". The tone was that the umpire screwed up and now deserved the ration of $h!t that was coming.

Reading the rule above, is the offensive team put in jeopardy if the umpire calls a foul ball. At that point, all play ceases as we have a dead ball. Sure, with a runner on third base that would have surely scored if the umpire ruled correctly, has that team been "placed in jeopardy"?

The OP had no one on base, so I see foul vs. fair as jeopardy.
With a runner on 3rd, a bunt right on the line, I would not judge that the runner would have scored.
If the runner stopped only because of the dead ball status, a difficult problem.

Yes, we have repeatedly discussed "unringing", and usually say no, but this case is about being clearly incorrect.
They never explained why the fair called foul was no corrected in the recent Phillies game, but apparently no one else on the 6 man crew saw it or it's MLB, or ...

Tru_in_Blu Thu Oct 20, 2022 07:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecil4 (Post 1049034)
The OP had no one on base, so I see foul vs. fair as jeopardy.
With a runner on 3rd, a bunt right on the line, I would not judge that the runner would have scored.
If the runner stopped only because of the dead ball status, a difficult problem.

Yes, we have repeatedly discussed "unringing", and usually say no, but this case is about being clearly incorrect.
They never explained why the fair called foul was no corrected in the recent Phillies game, but apparently no one else on the 6 man crew saw it or it's MLB, or ...

Who was put in jeopardy? The batter simply gets another chance to bat (unless 'sno-pitch foul third strike).

A bunt rolling slowly is a much easier call to make than a screamer down a line.

This is different than examples where a runner was put in jeopardy (by being tagged while off a base) because of an umpire's call.

We do need rule support. Rule 10 can be sold with good game management skills. But just because a call was "unfair" (pun intented) doesn't mean it's correct.

A sage person provides this quote:

"It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be."

Cecil4 Fri Oct 21, 2022 07:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1049037)

A sage person provides this quote:

"It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be."

:):):)


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