Fair or Foul?

[Rufus]

We're playing USSSA rules and this happened in the game before us. A grounder is hit to the base of the picher's mound (we use portable mounds, but I think a real mound would change the rule - please correct if I'm wrong). It bounces off the front of the mound and:

1. The catcher fields it in fair territory, then throws the runner out at 1B (this is what happend in the game)
2. The catcher fields the ball in foul territory (i.e., it bounced from the mound to foul territory without contacting anyone/thing before the catcher picks it up in foul territory)

The umpires called the runner out in the game and I believe, based on previous threads I've read here, that is correct. What's the ruling in the second scenario? My understanding is that it's a foul ball but, when asked, the umpires last night said it would still be a fair ball since it contacted the mound in fair territory.

I seem to recall a thread here with a hypothetical example of a ball getting hit to the outfield with tremendous backspin and bouncing back foul between either 3B or 1B and home without contacting a fielder and it being a foul ball.

I looked through the USSSA rule book and couldn't find anything in terms of a definition of fair/foul ball. Incidentally, what's the best way to search through a rule book like that? I use a key word search but that never seems to work very well. Is it better to look through OBR since USSSA is based on those?

[johnnyg08]

Sitch 1: fair ball
Sitch 2: foul ball

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Sitch 1: fair ball
Sitch 2: foul ball

That does assume that you are considering the mound to be a part of the field. (I know it sounds weird, but in the OP Rufus makes a note about the ruling being different if a "natural" mound.)

BTW: I agree.

[johnnyg08]

Then the coaches should know that and if it's different from basic rule sets, that becomes a ground rule IMO. Unless the umpires work lots of those types of games, they shouldn't be responsible for having to know nuances like that. If there's nothing specific in that rule set, then you go with what rules you know that are in x,y,z rule book.

Unrelated to the OP but related in a way...the 45 degree rule is nowhere to be found in the FED rule book, yet that is the accepted guideline in other rule sets.

[Rufus]

Thanks for quick response. I also found the following thread that goes into some detail about the hypothetical I mention:

Fair or foul?

It seems that, depending on rule set, once the ball contacts fair territory beyond the bases (or a line between them) it's fair whether or not it bounces back foul in between home and 3B/1B.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Thanks for quick response. I also found the following thread that goes into some detail about the hypothetical I mention:

Fair or foul?

It seems that, depending on rule set, once the ball contacts fair territory beyond the bases (or a line between them) it's fair whether or not it bounces back foul in between home and 3B/1B.

Note the word, "beyond" The rubber is in front of 1B/3B

[Rich Ives]

This is not a difficult problem for Q2

1) USSSA left out rule 2.00

2) USSSA says "The Official Rules of Baseball as
published by Major League Baseball on MLB.com shall govern any item not specifically covered herein."

3) Therefore from rule 2.00 of MLB - "A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.
A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.
Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball".

It mets all the requirements of a foul ball so it's a foul ball.

[justanotherblue]

There seems to be a lot of controvesy lately on here abut the 45, and it's origin. The rule says that the pitcher must step more toward first than home plate during the pick-off attempt. It's really not that confusing as it's been made out to be. If you simply imagine a straight line from the pitchers foot to the plate, a 90 degree angle...then cut it in half...hence your 45 degrees... if the pitcher steps more toward first..that is on the first base side of that imaginary line, he's OK. If he stepped more toward home, that is, his foot was more toward the home plate side of that line.. he balked. remember, the rule says he must step toward the base he intends to throw to. The 45 is a tool to help you determine if he did or didn't step more toward the bag or home. No it's not written, it's an umpires tool to help you determine if he's cheating.


edited to note, sorry for the hijack... as for the op question, it's a foul ball