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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 11:45am
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And now for something completely different: Does the Run score?

To take COVID-19 off of our minds for a bit, Mark, Jr., and I present the following play to the Softball Forum:


Play: R1 at 3B and R2 at 1B; 1 out. B4 hits a gapper. R1 scores. R2 misses 2B and stops at 3B. B/R4 is tagged out between 1B and 2B (after R1 has scored). Defense properly appeals that R2 missed 2B. Does the R1's Run score?


Please differentiate between NFHS, NCAA, USA Softball, and USSSA rulings. Thank you and let the fun begin.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 12:07pm
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In USA Softball, BR4 being out before the appeal makes it a timing play, after R1 scores.

NFHS and USSSA treat the appeal as a force out, cancelling the run.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
In USA Softball, BR4 being out before the appeal makes it a timing play, after R1 scores.

NFHS and USSSA treat the appeal as a force out, cancelling the run.


Cecil:

Please site appropriate Rule and Casebook Play for each Rules set.

Thanks,

MTD, Sr.
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Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 03:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Cecil:
Please site appropriate Rule and Casebook Play for each Rules set.
Thanks,
MTD, Sr.
USA 8.7.G, RS 1.J

NFHS 8-6-7, no case

USSSA - under "runner is out" in Rule 8(?)
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Old Thu May 21, 2020, 06:00pm
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NCAA, no run scores, still treated as a force play.

12.10.1 EFFECT

All rules sets, EXCEPT USA, rule on an appeal based on the time of the violation (was it a force out when the base was missed?). USA RS 1 (J) states the difference in philosophy, to be ruled based on the time of the appeal; thus subsequent play that erases a trail runner removes the force play in USA.
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Old Mon May 25, 2020, 04:21pm
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[NFHS] 9-1-1d. The OP's play is very close to the case book play 9.1.1 situation O.

AtlUmpSteve
has the correct summary.
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Old Mon Jun 01, 2020, 10:20am
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With further reading (prompted by a friend), RS 1.J says
that when a batter runner is retired “PRIOR” to reaching 1st, then all force plays are eliminated

RS 1.J also says "Therefore, if the batter-runner or trail runner is put out prior to an appeal, the out on the appeal will not be considered a force out." I think that means the appeal out in this play is not a force out, so the run counts.
Please comment.
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Old Mon Jun 01, 2020, 10:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
[NFHS] 9-1-1d. The OP's play is very close to the case book play 9.1.1 situation O.

AtlUmpSteve
has the correct summary.
Good point on Rule 9, Bob. I have to admit I rarely look at Rule 9.
That case is the same except for where B4 is put out.
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Old Wed Jun 03, 2020, 03:12pm
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Regarding RS 1.J, I was told:
If BR is out prior to reaching first, no force play. Therefore, if they appeal R1 missed 2nd on her way to 3rd, that is a timing play, so the run would count.
If the BR is tagged after reaching 1st base safely, then the force is still on and the appeal on R1 missing 2nd is a force play and if it’s the 3rd out, the run would not count.

I'm uncertain how the last sentence in RS 1.J applies, with the wording "batter-runner or trail runner is put out prior to an appeal"; as opposed to the earlier sentence wording "batter-runner is put out prior to reaching first base".

Does it say something different, or just further explanation?
IOW, does it mean the force is not removed if the BR reaches and now "possesses" 1st, even if out after that before the appeal.
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