And now for something completely different: Does the Run score?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

To take COVID-19 off of our minds for a bit, Mark, Jr., and I present the following play to the Softball Forum:


Play: R1 at 3B and R2 at 1B; 1 out. B4 hits a gapper. R1 scores. R2 misses 2B and stops at 3B. B/R4 is tagged out between 1B and 2B (after R1 has scored). Defense properly appeals that R2 missed 2B. Does the R1's Run score?


Please differentiate between NFHS, NCAA, USA Softball, and USSSA rulings. Thank you and let the fun begin.

MTD, Sr.

[CecilOne]

In USA Softball, BR4 being out before the appeal makes it a timing play, after R1 scores.

NFHS and USSSA treat the appeal as a force out, cancelling the run.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

In USA Softball, BR4 being out before the appeal makes it a timing play, after R1 scores.

NFHS and USSSA treat the appeal as a force out, cancelling the run.

Cecil:

Please site appropriate Rule and Casebook Play for each Rules set.

Thanks,

MTD, Sr.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Cecil:
Please site appropriate Rule and Casebook Play for each Rules set.
Thanks,
MTD, Sr.

USA 8.7.G, RS 1.J

NFHS 8-6-7, no case

USSSA - under "runner is out" in Rule 8(?)

[AtlUmpSteve]

NCAA, no run scores, still treated as a force play.

12.10.1 EFFECT

All rules sets, EXCEPT USA, rule on an appeal based on the time of the violation (was it a force out when the base was missed?). USA RS 1 (J) states the difference in philosophy, to be ruled based on the time of the appeal; thus subsequent play that erases a trail runner removes the force play in USA.

[Crabby_Bob]

[NFHS] 9-1-1d. The OP's play is very close to the case book play 9.1.1 situation O.

AtlUmpSteve has the correct summary.

[CecilOne]

With further reading (prompted by a friend), RS 1.J says
that when a batter runner is retired “PRIOR” to reaching 1st, then all force plays are eliminated

RS 1.J also says "Therefore, if the batter-runner or trail runner is put out prior to an appeal, the out on the appeal will not be considered a force out." I think that means the appeal out in this play is not a force out, so the run counts.
Please comment.