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Old Sun Feb 09, 2020, 11:33am
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Top 10 Differences

As we know there are lots of Rules differences between NFHS - NCAA - USA - USSSA.

I do some training in our HS group which consists of members who officiate all the named above.

I am looking for what might be your top 10 that is most confusing, likely to happen or problematic.

Please take time to respond, if you have 3 give me 3, 10 give me 10.

Thanks ... Jess

PM me if that works better for you

https://www.teamusa.org/-/media/USA_...ifferences.pdf
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Old Sun Feb 09, 2020, 07:58pm
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I will only comment on NFHS vs. USA. They have become more alike lately.


I have the same need. Here is the list of notes I used last year. Be sure to eliminate those that no longer apply like IP award, pitching move timing; and add damaged bats.
------------------------------------------------------

NFHS Rules Difference Highlights vs. USA
Lineup – initial, penalty for correction or unreported
head coaches verify that their players are legally and properly equipped.
Double 1st permitted, not required
Catcher box 10’
Line removal penalty
Bat grips and knobs, warm up bats
Catcher helmet
Uniforms –solid color under, caps, hair control, 6”number, religious/medical, weather, coaches
NO jewelry, taped or not
No shorthanded start
The restricted player is not allowed to leave the bench/dugout for the remainder of the game.
The home coach shall decide whether the grounds and other conditions are suitable to start
Pitcher on top of plate, may step back until hands separate
An illegal pitch is only a ball on the batter, no awarded advance by runners
On deck only their side
Head coach ejected for altered bat, along with the out and player ejected
Holding the bat in the strike zone is considered a bunt attempt
Intentional walk
Running lane
LBR pitcher control
CR - In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the lineup as the pitcher and catcher; both must face at least the first batter on defense (one pitch).

For the States our Association covers:
The Run Ahead rule is 10 after 5 (or the usual abut 4 1/2) for all NFHS games, regardless of State, Conference or League.

The magenta ones are either no longer different or some aspect has changed.
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Last edited by CecilOne; Sun Feb 16, 2020 at 05:00pm.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2020, 01:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
The Run Ahead rule is 10 after 5 (or the usual abut 4 1/2) for all NFHS games, regardless of State, Conference or League.
*Not applicable in all states.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2020, 07:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
*Not applicable in all states.
True, but I did say they were notes I used. Hopefully, he know his State.
And I have to say regardless of State in our classes because we cover 2 States and multiple conferences/leagues. I edited the list.

Thanks for the follow-up and any others are welcome.
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Old Sun Feb 16, 2020, 08:30am
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discussion about a defensive player making a catch while standing on a fence that had fallen over

For the exact same play:

∑ NFHS is NOT a catch;

∑ USA Softball IS a catch.

NFHS

2-9, ART. 4 . . . For a legal catch, a fielder must catch and have secure possession of the ball before stepping, touching or falling into a dead-ball area. A fielder who falls over or through the fence after making a catch shall be credited with the catch. A fielder who catches a ball while contacting or stepping on a collapsible fence, which is not completely horizontal, is credited with a catch.

Case Play

2.9.4 SITUATION:

B1 hits a fly ball toward the left field fence. F7 places a foot on the temporary fence while making the catch.

RULING: Legal. As long as the fence is not completely horizontal, a legal catch can be made.

USA Softball

Rule Supplement #20

FALLING OVER THE FENCE ON A CATCH.

The fence is an extension of the playing field, which makes it legal for a player to climb the fence and make the catch. When a player catches the ball in the air and their momentum carries them through or over the fence, the catch is legal, the batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and with fewer than two outs all runners are advanced one base without liability to be put out. Guidelines are as follows:

A. When a player catches the ball before they touch the ground outside the playing area, the catch is legal, or

B. When a player catches the ball after they touch the ground outside the playing area, it is not a catch. When a collapsible, portable fence is used and a defensive player is standing on the fence when the catch is made it is a legal catch. A defensive player may climb a fence to make a legal catch; therefore a defensive player may also stand on a fence that has fallen or is falling to the ground. As long as the defensive player has not stepped outside the playing area, the other side of the fence, the catch is legal.


For my personal way of trying to remember this moving forward, Iíll try to think that USA Softball allows for the Upper boundary of the fence, even if it falls back and the defender is standing on it.
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Old Sun Feb 16, 2020, 05:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
discussion about a defensive player making a catch while standing on a fence that had fallen over

For the exact same play:

∑ NFHS is NOT a catch;

∑ USA Softball IS a catch.

NFHS

2-9, ART. 4 . . . For a legal catch, a fielder must catch and have secure possession of the ball before stepping, touching or falling into a dead-ball area. A fielder who falls over or through the fence after making a catch shall be credited with the catch. A fielder who catches a ball while contacting or stepping on a collapsible fence, which is not completely horizontal, is credited with a catch.

Case Play

2.9.4 SITUATION:

B1 hits a fly ball toward the left field fence. F7 places a foot on the temporary fence while making the catch.

RULING: Legal. As long as the fence is not completely horizontal, a legal catch can be made.

USA Softball

Rule Supplement #20

FALLING OVER THE FENCE ON A CATCH.

The fence is an extension of the playing field, which makes it legal for a player to climb the fence and make the catch. When a player catches the ball in the air and their momentum carries them through or over the fence, the catch is legal, the batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and with fewer than two outs all runners are advanced one base without liability to be put out. Guidelines are as follows:

A. When a player catches the ball before they touch the ground outside the playing area, the catch is legal, or

B. When a player catches the ball after they touch the ground outside the playing area, it is not a catch. When a collapsible, portable fence is used and a defensive player is standing on the fence when the catch is made it is a legal catch. A defensive player may climb a fence to make a legal catch; therefore a defensive player may also stand on a fence that has fallen or is falling to the ground. As long as the defensive player has not stepped outside the playing area, the other side of the fence, the catch is legal.


For my personal way of trying to remember this moving forward, Iíll try to think that USA Softball allows for the Upper boundary of the fence, even if it falls back and the defender is standing on it.
Thanks for the "not on my list" reminder, and for the mnemonic.
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Old Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:16pm
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Teams start with 9 players.

Player leaves the game with a (non-concussion) injury.

In USA, player may not return (exception is the blood rule).

In NFHS, a player may return even if she's missed a turn a bat which resulted in an out. Each player is entitled to 1 re-entry. (Case Book 3.3.8.C)
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Last edited by Tru_in_Blu; Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 01:35pm. Reason: Added reference
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Old Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:38pm
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Unreported substitute. I believe this to be true, and we may have discussed it here previously. But I can't put my finger on specific references.

Bottom of the 7th inning, tie game.

Unreported substitute hits a walk-off HR.

NFHS, game over; USA allows for the protest of the unreported sub who is declared out.
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Old Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Unreported substitute. I believe this to be true, and we may have discussed it here previously. But I can't put my finger on specific references.

Bottom of the 7th inning, tie game.

Unreported substitute hits a walk-off HR.

NFHS, game over; USA allows for the protest of the unreported sub who is declared out.
NFHS, game over
Assuming no previous unreported sub ??
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Old Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
NFHS, game over
Assuming no previous unreported sub ??
Well, maybe even if there was. I mean, what's the penalty? The offending player and the coach will be restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game... Wait, what? Oh, the game's over? OK, happily restricted.

This is something that in all likelihood would never happen, right? But by rule, if it did, doesn't seem very fair on the NFHS side. But as I learned in Business Law I, it doesn't matter if it's fair - it matters that it's the (law) rule.
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Old Sat Feb 29, 2020, 10:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
*Not applicable in all states.
I would appreciate any practical alternatives, other than time limits.
Especially if they help with very high scoring that takes until the 5th to end.
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Old Sat Feb 29, 2020, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
I would appreciate any practical alternatives, other than time limits.
Especially if they help with very high scoring that takes until the 5th to end.
In NH, our state adopted game ending procedure is a 12-run rule. Some middle-school games have a time limit as well as the 12-run rule.

So in the top of the first, the visitors score 8 runs. I'm thinking we might get out early. Then the home team scores 9. Looking like a long afternoon...

Unless the state does something, what other options might there be? Three inning games?
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Old Sun Mar 01, 2020, 12:04am
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Learning Opportunities

We learn every game! Never be bigger than the game! Check that ego in before getting to the field. Every team and kid deserves a good crew. Help the younger officials because most of us will be gone! The site is a tool to offer more help, rather than to criticize!
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Old Wed Mar 04, 2020, 12:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
I would appreciate any practical alternatives, other than time limits.
Especially if they help with very high scoring that takes until the 5th to end.
Nebraska uses the same 12/3; 10/4; 8/5 rule in high school as they have adopted for ASA USA JO FP play. JV is on a 1:45 timer.
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Old Wed Mar 11, 2020, 09:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
Nebraska uses the same 12/3; 10/4; 8/5 rule in high school as they have adopted for ASA USA JO FP play. JV is on a 1:45 timer.
I think USA JO is 15/3; 12/4; 8/5.

The way I remember this is 15-3 = 12; 12-4 = 8; then 8/5.

Too often tournaments alter the run ahead rule to suit their time frames.

Are you saying Nebraska uses the version you stated across the state? Consistency is a nice thing.
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