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agr8zebra Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:33am

Top 10 Differences
 
As we know there are lots of Rules differences between NFHS - NCAA - USA - USSSA.

I do some training in our HS group which consists of members who officiate all the named above.

I am looking for what might be your top 10 that is most confusing, likely to happen or problematic.

Please take time to respond, if you have 3 give me 3, 10 give me 10.

Thanks ... Jess

PM me if that works better for you

https://www.teamusa.org/-/media/USA_...ifferences.pdf

CecilOne Sun Feb 09, 2020 07:58pm

I will only comment on NFHS vs. USA. They have become more alike lately.


I have the same need. Here is the list of notes I used last year. Be sure to eliminate those that no longer apply like IP award, pitching move timing; and add damaged bats.
------------------------------------------------------

NFHS Rules Difference Highlights vs. USA
Lineup – initial, penalty for correction or unreported
head coaches verify that their players are legally and properly equipped.
Double 1st permitted, not required
Catcher box 10’
Line removal penalty
Bat grips and knobs, warm up bats
Catcher helmet
Uniforms –solid color under, caps, hair control, 6”number, religious/medical, weather, coaches
NO jewelry, taped or not
No shorthanded start
The restricted player is not allowed to leave the bench/dugout for the remainder of the game.
The home coach shall decide whether the grounds and other conditions are suitable to start
Pitcher on top of plate, may step back until hands separate
An illegal pitch is only a ball on the batter, no awarded advance by runners
On deck only their side
Head coach ejected for altered bat, along with the out and player ejected
Holding the bat in the strike zone is considered a bunt attempt
Intentional walk
Running lane
LBR pitcher control
CR - In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the lineup as the pitcher and catcher; both must face at least the first batter on defense (one pitch).

For the States our Association covers:
The Run Ahead rule is 10 after 5 (or the usual abut 4 1/2) for all NFHS games, regardless of State, Conference or League.

The magenta ones are either no longer different or some aspect has changed.

teebob21 Mon Feb 10, 2020 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1037474)
The Run Ahead rule is 10 after 5 (or the usual abut 4 1/2) for all NFHS games, regardless of State, Conference or League.

*Not applicable in all states. :D

CecilOne Mon Feb 10, 2020 07:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1037482)
*Not applicable in all states. :D

True, but I did say they were notes I used. Hopefully, he know his State.
And I have to say regardless of State in our classes because we cover 2 States and multiple conferences/leagues. I edited the list.

Thanks for the follow-up and any others are welcome.

Tru_in_Blu Sun Feb 16, 2020 08:30am

discussion about a defensive player making a catch while standing on a fence that had fallen over

For the exact same play:

· NFHS is NOT a catch;

· USA Softball IS a catch.

NFHS

2-9, ART. 4 . . . For a legal catch, a fielder must catch and have secure possession of the ball before stepping, touching or falling into a dead-ball area. A fielder who falls over or through the fence after making a catch shall be credited with the catch. A fielder who catches a ball while contacting or stepping on a collapsible fence, which is not completely horizontal, is credited with a catch.

Case Play

2.9.4 SITUATION:

B1 hits a fly ball toward the left field fence. F7 places a foot on the temporary fence while making the catch.

RULING: Legal. As long as the fence is not completely horizontal, a legal catch can be made.

USA Softball

Rule Supplement #20

FALLING OVER THE FENCE ON A CATCH.

The fence is an extension of the playing field, which makes it legal for a player to climb the fence and make the catch. When a player catches the ball in the air and their momentum carries them through or over the fence, the catch is legal, the batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and with fewer than two outs all runners are advanced one base without liability to be put out. Guidelines are as follows:

A. When a player catches the ball before they touch the ground outside the playing area, the catch is legal, or

B. When a player catches the ball after they touch the ground outside the playing area, it is not a catch. When a collapsible, portable fence is used and a defensive player is standing on the fence when the catch is made it is a legal catch. A defensive player may climb a fence to make a legal catch; therefore a defensive player may also stand on a fence that has fallen or is falling to the ground. As long as the defensive player has not stepped outside the playing area, the other side of the fence, the catch is legal.


For my personal way of trying to remember this moving forward, I’ll try to think that USA Softball allows for the Upper boundary of the fence, even if it falls back and the defender is standing on it.

CecilOne Sun Feb 16, 2020 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1037650)
discussion about a defensive player making a catch while standing on a fence that had fallen over

For the exact same play:

· NFHS is NOT a catch;

· USA Softball IS a catch.

NFHS

2-9, ART. 4 . . . For a legal catch, a fielder must catch and have secure possession of the ball before stepping, touching or falling into a dead-ball area. A fielder who falls over or through the fence after making a catch shall be credited with the catch. A fielder who catches a ball while contacting or stepping on a collapsible fence, which is not completely horizontal, is credited with a catch.

Case Play

2.9.4 SITUATION:

B1 hits a fly ball toward the left field fence. F7 places a foot on the temporary fence while making the catch.

RULING: Legal. As long as the fence is not completely horizontal, a legal catch can be made.

USA Softball

Rule Supplement #20

FALLING OVER THE FENCE ON A CATCH.

The fence is an extension of the playing field, which makes it legal for a player to climb the fence and make the catch. When a player catches the ball in the air and their momentum carries them through or over the fence, the catch is legal, the batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and with fewer than two outs all runners are advanced one base without liability to be put out. Guidelines are as follows:

A. When a player catches the ball before they touch the ground outside the playing area, the catch is legal, or

B. When a player catches the ball after they touch the ground outside the playing area, it is not a catch. When a collapsible, portable fence is used and a defensive player is standing on the fence when the catch is made it is a legal catch. A defensive player may climb a fence to make a legal catch; therefore a defensive player may also stand on a fence that has fallen or is falling to the ground. As long as the defensive player has not stepped outside the playing area, the other side of the fence, the catch is legal.


For my personal way of trying to remember this moving forward, I’ll try to think that USA Softball allows for the Upper boundary of the fence, even if it falls back and the defender is standing on it.

Thanks for the "not on my list" reminder, and for the mnemonic. :cool:

Tru_in_Blu Mon Feb 24, 2020 01:16pm

Teams start with 9 players.

Player leaves the game with a (non-concussion) injury.

In USA, player may not return (exception is the blood rule).

In NFHS, a player may return even if she's missed a turn a bat which resulted in an out. Each player is entitled to 1 re-entry. (Case Book 3.3.8.C)

Tru_in_Blu Mon Feb 24, 2020 01:38pm

Unreported substitute. I believe this to be true, and we may have discussed it here previously. But I can't put my finger on specific references.

Bottom of the 7th inning, tie game.

Unreported substitute hits a walk-off HR.

NFHS, game over; USA allows for the protest of the unreported sub who is declared out.

CecilOne Mon Feb 24, 2020 04:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1037825)
Unreported substitute. I believe this to be true, and we may have discussed it here previously. But I can't put my finger on specific references.

Bottom of the 7th inning, tie game.

Unreported substitute hits a walk-off HR.

NFHS, game over; USA allows for the protest of the unreported sub who is declared out.

NFHS, game over
Assuming no previous unreported sub ??

Tru_in_Blu Mon Feb 24, 2020 09:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1037836)
NFHS, game over
Assuming no previous unreported sub ??

Well, maybe even if there was. I mean, what's the penalty? The offending player and the coach will be restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game... Wait, what? Oh, the game's over? OK, happily restricted.

This is something that in all likelihood would never happen, right? But by rule, if it did, doesn't seem very fair on the NFHS side. But as I learned in Business Law I, it doesn't matter if it's fair - it matters that it's the (law) rule.

CecilOne Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1037482)
*Not applicable in all states. :D

I would appreciate any practical alternatives, other than time limits.
Especially if they help with very high scoring that takes until the 5th to end.

Tru_in_Blu Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1037952)
I would appreciate any practical alternatives, other than time limits.
Especially if they help with very high scoring that takes until the 5th to end.

In NH, our state adopted game ending procedure is a 12-run rule. Some middle-school games have a time limit as well as the 12-run rule.

So in the top of the first, the visitors score 8 runs. I'm thinking we might get out early. Then the home team scores 9. Looking like a long afternoon...

Unless the state does something, what other options might there be? Three inning games?

blue06 Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:04am

Learning Opportunities
 
We learn every game! Never be bigger than the game! Check that ego in before getting to the field. Every team and kid deserves a good crew. Help the younger officials because most of us will be gone! The site is a tool to offer more help, rather than to criticize!:)

teebob21 Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1037952)
I would appreciate any practical alternatives, other than time limits.
Especially if they help with very high scoring that takes until the 5th to end.

Nebraska uses the same 12/3; 10/4; 8/5 rule in high school as they have adopted for ASA USA JO FP play. JV is on a 1:45 timer.

Tru_in_Blu Wed Mar 11, 2020 09:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1038018)
Nebraska uses the same 12/3; 10/4; 8/5 rule in high school as they have adopted for ASA USA JO FP play. JV is on a 1:45 timer.

I think USA JO is 15/3; 12/4; 8/5.

The way I remember this is 15-3 = 12; 12-4 = 8; then 8/5.

Too often tournaments alter the run ahead rule to suit their time frames.

Are you saying Nebraska uses the version you stated across the state? Consistency is a nice thing.


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