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Old Mon Oct 28, 2019, 11:24am
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Latest on NCAA Pitching Clarification

Quote:
10.2.2 While in the pitching position and taking the signal, the
pitcher must take or appear to take a signal. The signal need not
come from the catcher.

Clarification 1: Taking the signal from behind the pitcher’s plate
from her signal arm band or the catcher is illegal since the pitcher
is not in the pitching position. The result is an illegal pitch.
So here's an issue I ran into last week during a fall ball game. By rule, the pitcher has ten seconds once she receives the ball to get onto the pitcher's plate. Then she has another ten seconds to bring her hands together. After that, she has five seconds to deliver the pitch.

Before this taking the signal rule change, pitchers would be off the plate to get the signal, then step onto the plate and look in at their catcher. They would rarely take ten seconds to do either. But during my game, pitchers came very close to violating the ten-second limit from when they step onto the plate to when they bring their hands together. In a couple of occasions, the pitcher did violate the rule when either she or her catcher had trouble receiving the signal from the dugout. It's almost as if the first ten-second window (pitcher receives the ball to when she engages the plate) is no longer relevant.

So I'm kinda curious if NCAA is going to change the rule to the 20-second limit that is used in other organizations, such as NFHS. Instead of having this bifurcated 10-10-5 rule, just give the pitcher 20 seconds from once she receives the ball to when she releases the ball. It would make things a little simpler from an enforcement standpoint, and it would not penalize pitchers who now have to receive the signal, check the arm band, and then put their hands together, all within ten seconds while contacting the plate.
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Old Mon Oct 28, 2019, 04:11pm
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I'll just call it when I see it and worry about future rules changes next cycle.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:35am
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Quote:
10.2.2 While in the pitching position and taking the signal, the
pitcher must take or appear to take a signal. The signal need not
come from the catcher.

Clarification 1: Taking the signal from behind the pitcher’s plate
from her signal arm band or the catcher is illegal since the pitcher
is not in the pitching position. The result is an illegal pitch.
For an organization supposedly representing institutions of high learning, they do some pretty stupid things
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2019, 10:19am
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This Clarification 1 is accurate if the action ends there. But it does not end there. For some unexplainable reason, they don't continue the logical progression in the clarification to where F1 steps on, pauses, and takes the signal (which makes everything LEGAL!!!).

If anyone here belongs to SUP on Arbiter (which I do not yet), there is a clarification, I believe from Vickie, that came in 9/23/19 that clears up this whole mess.

I was able to find it via Google that day, but not since.

It spells out the entire process. This is my paraphrase:

Pitcher possesses ball in back of circle. Looks at armband. Steps on pitcher's plate. Takes or simulates taking signal from catcher or dugout. Looks at armband. Brings hands together. Proceeds to pitch.

Ruling. This is a legal pitch.

Can someone who is registered with SUP please check postings from around that date and verify what I found that day?

Thanks very much.

Last edited by jmkupka; Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 10:25am.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2019, 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkupka View Post
This Clarification 1 is accurate if the action ends there. But it does not end there. For some unexplainable reason, they don't continue the logical progression in the clarification to where F1 steps on, pauses, and takes the signal (which makes everything LEGAL!!!).

If anyone here belongs to SUP on Arbiter (which I do not yet), there is a clarification, I believe from Vickie, that came in 9/23/19 that clears up this whole mess.

I was able to find it via Google that day, but not since.

It spells out the entire process. This is my paraphrase:

Pitcher possesses ball in back of circle. Looks at armband. Steps on pitcher's plate. Takes or simulates taking signal from catcher or dugout. Looks at armband. Brings hands together. Proceeds to pitch.

Ruling. This is a legal pitch.

Can someone who is registered with SUP please check postings from around that date and verify what I found that day?

Thanks very much.
So what I quoted in my OP came from the latest clarification on the SUP. It refutes what you wrote above regarding a pitcher who looks at her armband while she's still not in contact with the plate. If she does that, as mentioned in Clarification 1, it's an illegal pitch. The pitcher cannot in any way, shape or form do anything while not in contact that looks like she's receiving the signal from her catcher or she's referring to her armband.

Here's the entire clarification from the SUP:

Quote:
Rule Date Interpretation/Clarification/Situation:

10.2.1.2 10/21/19 10.2.1.2 The stride foot may be on or behind the pitcher’s plate as far back as desired. Once the pitcher initially sets the toe of her stride foot, she may not step back any farther to increase the distance behind the pitcher’s plate.

Clarification: The stride foot may be on or behind the pitcher’s plate as far back as desired. Once the pitcher takes the proper pitching position required for taking the signal and initially sets the toe of her stride foot, she may not move that foot in any direction (backward, forward, sideways or off the ground). The proper pitching position as defined in Rule 10.2.1, including the position of the stride foot, must be established before taking the signal. Once the pitcher has established her stride foot, simple dropping or rocking onto her heel is not a violation. The first movement of the stride foot is the forward step when the pitching motion starts.

10.2.2 10/21/19 10.2.2 While in the pitching position and taking the signal, the pitcher must take or appear to take a signal. The signal need not come from the catcher.

Clarification 1: Taking the signal from behind the pitcher’s plate from her signal arm band or the catcher is illegal since the pitcher is not in the pitching position. The result is an illegal pitch.

Clarification 2: A coach may give visual or verbal signal while the pitcher is not in the pitching position, however, when the pitcher assumes the pitching position she must look at her signal arm band or the catcher to take or appear to take the signal. The pitcher may not simply step into the pitching position, put her hands together and start the pitching motion. There must be timing consistent with taking the signal from an arm band or catcher. Failing to do so will result in an illegal pitch.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2019, 11:05am
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To add to my last, this is what Vickie put out on the SUP in November. It was rather short and sweet.

Quote:
Taking the Signal: The pitcher must take a signal while in the pitching position.
Taking a signal from behind the pitcher’s plate (e.g., looking at the signal arm band) is illegal since the pitcher is not in the pitching position. The result is an illegal pitch.
So the latest just added the clarification that the pitcher may look into the dugout to get the signal while she's still disengaged, step on the plate, and then look at her arm band for that signal. I'm not really sure what compelled this clarification, other than perhaps some umpires or coaches asked, "What happens when..."

But this latest clarification does add another element of inconsistency into the rule enforcement. So a pitcher can look into the dugout from behind the plate, see her coach flash "1-4-3" with his/her hand, step on the plate, and then look for "1-4-3" on her arm band to get the pitch call. But she cannot look toward home from behind the plate and see her catcher flash "1-4-3" with her hand. The rule requires her to be in contact with the plate to receive anything from her catcher. Ugh.

Now, in my game last week, every pitcher (each team threw four pitchers) got into the pitching position with their pivot foot on and their stride foot in contact with the back of the plate, looked into the dugout, then looked at their arm band, before joining their hands. No issues there. It will be that one pitcher next spring who looks at her catcher before contacting the plate......
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Last edited by Manny A; Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 01:26pm.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2019, 03:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post

So I'm kinda curious if NCAA is going to change the rule to the 20-second limit that is used in other organizations, such as NFHS. Instead of having this bifurcated 10-10-5 rule, just give the pitcher 20 seconds from once she receives the ball to when she releases the ball. It would make things a little simpler from an enforcement standpoint, and it would not penalize pitchers who now have to receive the signal, check the arm band, and then put their hands together, all within ten seconds while contacting the plate.
I think the two rules can work in conjunction very well. And now the with reduced IP penalty, the enforcement is easier: if looking at the armband prior to being in the pitching position, IP . . still live ball until the pitcher doesn't proceed . . then kill it with a ball on the batter. Which is the same effect if the 10 - 10 - 5 is violated.

What we are going to see is quick adaptation, with pitchers getting in position just after receiving the ball. I think it will be the batters who will have to adjust just as much with the first 10 seconds - and the second "10" doesn't start until the batter is set. Therefore, the pitcher could be in the pitching position for 18 to 19 seconds before putting her hands together and still be legal.

Example: she receives the ball and immediately gets into the pitching position. The batter takes 9.5 seconds to get ready. That ends the first "10" and then the pitcher waits 9.5 seconds to put her hands together. No violation of any rules.

But if the batter gets set very quickly, we (the blue crew) need to start the count early in the season.
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