Obstruction

[jmkupka]

Surprised I haven't seen this happen before...

High level NCAA Umpire evaluation tournament...

Bases loaded, hard grounder to F6 (cheating a little to 3B), charges the ball, turns and flips to F5 at 3B, R2 from 2B runs square into F6's back (no USC).

The ball is released well before the runner contacts F6. My base partner has no OBS on the play.

Don't know what was explained to the irate #B coach, but that night over dinner, he explains it is an interpretation that, if in his judgement, the runner would not have been safe even without the OBS, it isnt called.

Any thoughts?

[RKBUmp]

Have no idea about NCAA, but any other ruleset it is obstruction and Im pretty sure there are case plays with that exact situation.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Interested to hear about these case plays and such. I don't do NCAA so don't know if there are similarities to USA/NFHS.

In the INT threads, it's often mentioned that a runner can't just go "poof" - and it would seem a similar thought process that a fielder can't just go "poof" either.

So if R2 has actually been retired by F6's toss to F5 for the force play, how could she be OBS'd?

[CecilOne]

I don't think we ever apply "can't go poof" to OBS. I'm thinking about when a fielder misses the ball at a base and then impedes the runner.

Does this OP play come down to "the base she would have reached", which is none; or does the "can't be out between those bases" override?

[Tru_in_Blu]

From the OP: "The ball is released well before the runner contacts F6."

I'm reading that as a couple of seconds, maybe three seconds, after F6 made the throw to F5. So in theory, unless F6 floated a high throw to F5, R2 would likely be out by the time contact occurred. If she's out, she can't be OBS'd, but she could still INT (not saying she did in this case).

Had the runner arrived 2 seconds earlier and run into F6 as she was making the throw, we'd likely have INT (or possibly an out on a tag if F6 realized the runner was actually that close).

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I don't think we ever apply "can't go poof" to OBS. I'm thinking about when a fielder misses the ball at a base and then impedes the runner.

But in this case, the fielder did not miss a ball at all. She was in the process of making a play which is an attempt by a defensive player to retire an offensive player.

How long is the defender permitted to hold her position while or after making said play? You must answer this if your argument is she "can't go poof".

[RKBUmp]

Im on vacation and don't have access to my case books but I know somewhere there is a case play as I mentioned earlier. As I said, Im not sure about NCAA but there is no option in any other ruleset to ignore the obstruction because "the runner would have been out anyway". USA does have some wording to that effect, but only in situations where it was a caught fly ball and the runner was obstructed trying to tag up, not the situation you have described in the OP.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

But in this case, the fielder did not miss a ball at all. She was in the process of making a play which is an attempt by a defensive player to retire an offensive player.

How long is the defender permitted to hold her position while or after making said play? You must answer this if your argument is she "can't go poof".

Come on, missing the ball was not the point; just an example of a fielder impeding without time to evade.

The is based on base runner momentum until the play ends or it passes beyond the runner.
Applying that "can't go poof" concept to the OP etc., means either the runner passes the fielder or the play is beyond them. Excluding deliberate OBS of course.