You make the call: INT by BR on a potential IFF

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

My last point about fair/foul status: when a fly ball is hit in the outfield (say over fair territory) are you declaring it fair while in the air? In a pop fly where the catcher is tracking in foul territory, are you holding up your arms to indicate foul? Or your aforementioned little spinner down the line -- are you indicating fair prior to being touched, then changing your signal to foul once touched over foul territory? Of course, the answers to all these questions are: "No, I don't indicate fair or foul until one of the two definitions are met."

My entire point is that the umpire may not know or be able to determine whether it is fair or foul until the criteria are met. BUT, the batted ball always had that status from the time it hit the bat. It is fair/foul the moment it is hit, even if the umpires do not know which yet. Similarly, the IF is an IF the moment it is hit and the batter is out at that time, even if it takes the umpires a couple seconds to determine/realize it.

If you say it "has no fair/foul status" until it meets the definitions, then you have to read NFHS 8-5-1 as allowing runners to continue to advance until the ball "is foul." This is absurd. It was foul the moment it was hit, even if nobody knew it yet.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Altor

It is fair/foul the moment it is hit, even if the umpires do not know which yet.

Sorry, I find this statement to be absurd.

Ever heard of or seen a hook or a slice? Ever done a game where the wind is gusting upwards of 40 mph or more? (And in that windy game, is ANY batted fly ball possible to catch with ordinary effort?) Ever had a spinning ground ball near a foul line where the coaches are yelling to the defender to "let it go foul" or "keep it foul"?

I'd have to guess "no".

[chapmaja]

I guess I need to be included in the group which says the ball has no status fair / foul until is actually meets the definition of a fair ball or a foul ball by the rule book. We may come to an educated conclusion a ball will be fair or foul, but the ball has not actually attained that status until the ball meets that definition.

For example, we have the bases loaded, 2 outs and a 3-2 count. The runners are leaving hard towards the next base on the release of the pitch. The batter hits a popup with a lot of backspin on it that lands on the between first and the pitchers plate without being touched. Due to the spin the ball rolls backward and crosses the foul line and settles after the 3 base runners have all reached base and the batter runner has reached first base.

Everyone has attained a base from what they occupied at the time of the pitch, prior to the ball's status being determined. The ruling is still a foul ball and everyone goes back to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. Everyone may have assumed the status of the ball would be fair given it was hit into fair territory, but nothing actually made the status of the ball fair so the ball never attained the status of a fair ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I guess I need to be included in the group which says the ball has no status fair / foul until is actually meets the definition of a fair ball or a foul ball by the rule book. We may come to an educated conclusion a ball will be fair or foul, but the ball has not actually attained that status until the ball meets that definition.

For example, we have the bases loaded, 2 outs and a 3-2 count. The runners are leaving hard towards the next base on the release of the pitch. The batter hits a popup with a lot of backspin on it that lands on the between first and the pitchers plate without being touched. Due to the spin the ball rolls backward and crosses the foul line and settles after the 3 base runners have all reached base and the batter runner has reached first base.

Everyone has attained a base from what they occupied at the time of the pitch, prior to the ball's status being determined. The ruling is still a foul ball and everyone goes back to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. Everyone may have assumed the status of the ball would be fair given it was hit into fair territory, but nothing actually made the status of the ball fair so the ball never attained the status of a fair ball.

IMO, the status of the ball is determined simultaneously with anything which causes the play to be dead.