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Old Fri May 10, 2019, 11:03am
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Mechanics Issues

Two umpire system, not NCAA, preferably USA & NFHS.
With runners on 2nd and 3rd and the BU in the C slot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

1) AFAIK, the priority is always the lead runner, 3rd for this.

2) AFAIK, we are taught to move parallel to the base line. So,

a) walking the runner back to 3rd means moving parallel and perpendicular to the foul line; as opposed to 45 degree angle or forward toward the base line.

b) walking the runner back to 2nd, only if runner at 3rd not moving forward, also parallel to the base line; as opposed to 45 degree angle or forward toward the base line.

Obviously, watching the other runner as well, and not blocking the SS.
Both cases, upright, watching the ball, walking back until the runner reaches the base.

Comments, please.
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Old Fri May 10, 2019, 12:16pm
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I assume you're talking about what the BU does between pitches. I always walk forward from my set position in "C" a couple of steps, and then react by moving perpendicular to the foul line or the first-to-second line extended to try and get an angle on the play. Quite often, the catcher's quick pop up throw won't give me any time to take those couple of steps forward.
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Old Fri May 10, 2019, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I assume you're talking about what the BU does between pitches.
Correct.
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Old Fri May 10, 2019, 04:15pm
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That's what I was always taught when you have 2 runners. Move straight in and then if there is a play move towards the play.
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Old Wed May 15, 2019, 10:42am
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In the 3 umpire system, no one chases, who has tag-up responsibility for 2nd base?
- 2nd base only is U1
- 1st base only is U3
- multiple runners, is 2nd base tag-up U3 or U1?


Yes, I hijacked my own thread.
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Last edited by CecilOne; Wed May 15, 2019 at 04:21pm.
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Old Wed May 15, 2019, 03:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
In the 3 umpire system, no one chases, who has tag-up responsibility for 2nd base?
- 2nd base only is U1
- 1st base only is U3
- multiple runners, is 2nd base tag-up U3 or U1?
If you're still asking about NFHS/USA, neither mentions in their umpire manuals what happens with a fly ball in the outfield when nobody chases. The expectation is that someone always chases. The non-chasing umpire has R1, and the PU has R2.

The NCAA's CCA manual states that U1 has tag-up responsibility of both R1 and R2.
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Old Wed May 15, 2019, 04:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
NFHS/USA, neither mentions in their umpire manuals what happens with a fly ball in the outfield when nobody chases The expectation is that someone always chases. . .
Exactly !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
The non-chasing umpire has R1, and the PU has R2.
I think you reversed those, PU has lead runner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
The NCAA's CCA manual states that U1 has tag-up responsibility of both R1 and R2.
I never discuss NCAA
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Old Wed May 15, 2019, 04:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
That's what I was always taught when you have 2 runners. Move straight in and then if there is a play move towards the play.
You say move in, I said to the side (parallel and perpendicular to the foul line), which is the difference I am trying to resolve and hopefully 45 degrees is not the answer.
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Old Wed May 15, 2019, 10:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
You say move in, I said to the side (parallel and perpendicular to the foul line), which is the difference I am trying to resolve and hopefully 45 degrees is not the answer.
Move towards the circle, parallel with 3BL. Don't reach the 2B-3B line unless there is a play at 3B. If the throw goes to 2B, drop step back towards where you started at C and simultaneously get as close to 2B as possible for a call. The angle is going to be crap regardless.

The 2-Umpire System is basically nothing but compromises for BU working between pitches with multiple runners on.
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Old Wed May 15, 2019, 11:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
If you're still asking about NFHS/USA, neither mentions in their umpire manuals what happens with a fly ball in the outfield when nobody chases.
The very last page of the Fed manual has tag-up responsibilities for when no one chases in 3-man. (Looking at the 16/17 Fed manual, page 54)

R1/R2: U1 has 1B, U3 has 2B.
R2/R3: U1 has 2B, U3 has 3B.
R1/R3: U1 has 1B, U3 has 3B.
Bases loaded: U1 has 1B & 2B, U3 has 3B.

I assume this is the same for ASA/USA, but I can't find an umpire manual right now, since they separated it from the rule book/"participant manual".
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Old Thu May 16, 2019, 09:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
I think you reversed those, PU has lead runner.
Actually, I used the NCAA convention of calling R2 the runner who starts out at second base, and R1 the runner at first base. Hard habit to break.
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Old Thu May 16, 2019, 09:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
The very last page of the Fed manual has tag-up responsibilities for when no one chases in 3-man. (Looking at the 16/17 Fed manual, page 54)

R1/R2: U1 has 1B, U3 has 2B.
R2/R3: U1 has 2B, U3 has 3B.
R1/R3: U1 has 1B, U3 has 3B.
Bases loaded: U1 has 1B & 2B, U3 has 3B.

I assume this is the same for ASA/USA, but I can't find an umpire manual right now, since they separated it from the rule book/"participant manual".
I checked the PDF version of the 2018 USA Umpire Manual that is on their website, and there is no tag-up responsibilities table for the different runner configurations. They do have a table for leaving base early.
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Old Thu May 16, 2019, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
The very last page of the Fed manual has tag-up responsibilities for when no one chases in 3-man. (Looking at the 16/17 Fed manual, page 54)

R1/R2: U1 has 1B, U3 has 2B.
R2/R3: U1 has 2B, U3 has 3B.
R1/R3: U1 has 1B, U3 has 3B.
Bases loaded: U1 has 1B & 2B, U3 has 3B.

I assume this is the same for ASA/USA, but I can't find an umpire manual right now, since they separated it from the rule book/"participant manual".
Exactly, also 18/19 manual. When no one chases:
U1 has 2nd base tag with runner(s) at 2nd only, 2nd & 3rd, or bases loaded.
U3 has 2nd base tag only when with runner(s) 1st and 2nd and not 3rd.
U1 has all runners at 1st, U3 has all runners at 3rd
PU has no tag-ups

USA and NFHS mechanics are taught to be equivalent, so that applies to USA as well. Sorry I only looked at USA manual.
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Old Thu May 16, 2019, 11:16am
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Any more comments on this.

AFAIK, we are taught to move parallel to the base line. So,

a) walking the runner back to 3rd means moving parallel and perpendicular to the foul line; as opposed to 45 degree angle or forward toward the base line.

b) walking the runner back to 2nd, only if runner at 3rd not moving forward, also parallel to the base line; as opposed to 45 degree angle or forward toward the base line.
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Old Thu May 16, 2019, 01:56pm
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When all else fails look at the umpire manual. Page 79 of the 2019 USA Softball manual

USA.1803 Umpire Supplement FINAL2-HIREZ


And for the tag up responsibilities (leaving early on a caught fly ball) when no umpire chases, U3 takes the PU responsibilities and U1 has the base umpire responsibilities in 2 umpire mechanics.

Leaving early on the pitch is in the umpire manual also.
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