PC issues

[Pantherdreams]

Watching my god daughter play this weekend saw some very good and very bad ball at a local memorial tournament.

Brought up lots of questions with me and the other current officials at the tournament back in the hotel after.

Issues related to the "charge":

1) If the defensive player does nothing wrong. LGP, moving backwards (not falling backwards), and starts to lose their balance when contact occurs leading them to end up on their back how many of you would pass on this? Example: A1 is being defended after a swtich by B5. B5 gets legal and starts to back pedal to keep A1 in front. B5 starts to stumble and slow themselves to get balance when contact occurs which doesn't allow B5 to recover their balance. Contact is minimal and normally wouldn't have been enough to disadvantave B5.

2) Is their a point where player control fouls can become unsportsmanlike (in your case intentional or flagrant) beyond a hockey check? Not excessive in the act but the frequency. A very good smaller school was playing a very good larger school in the semifinal. Game was physical and competitive for a half. In the 2nd half larger school realized they needed to up the pace of the game and smaller school players didn't have footwork or control to play at pace. Basically over the 3rd and 4th quarter larger school was able to force several turnovers but more importantly was stepping in front of out of control drives and ball carriers. Drew probably 15 charges in the 2nd half. To get up 25+. Once the benches emptied and the game settled bigs and guards kept attacking hard for small school crashing into and through defenders for more charges. Things started to get chippy as players were clearly more interested in knocking other girls down than actually trying to stop their feet and avoid the charge.

3) Age old debate: if player can move backwards or twist to protect themself, can they lean back to protect themself and still be legal and get PC call.

THanks!


Quality of topics and questions has been solid lately.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Watching my god daughter play this weekend saw some very good and very bad ball at a local memorial tournament.

Brought up lots of questions with me and the other current officials at the tournament back in the hotel after.

Issues related to the "charge":

1) If the defensive player does nothing wrong. LGP, moving backwards (not falling backwards), and starts to lose their balance when contact occurs leading them to end up on their back how many of you would pass on this? Example: A1 is being defended after a swtich by B5. B5 gets legal and starts to back pedal to keep A1 in front. B5 starts to stumble and slow themselves to get balance when contact occurs which doesn't allow B5 to recover their balance. Contact is minimal and normally wouldn't have been enough to disadvantave B5.

2) Is their a point where player control fouls can become unsportsmanlike (in your case intentional or flagrant) beyond a hockey check? Not excessive in the act but the frequency. A very good smaller school was playing a very good larger school in the semifinal. Game was physical and competitive for a half. In the 2nd half larger school realized they needed to up the pace of the game and smaller school players didn't have footwork or control to play at pace. Basically over the 3rd and 4th quarter larger school was able to force several turnovers but more importantly was stepping in front of out of control drives and ball carriers. Drew probably 15 charges in the 2nd half. To get up 25+. Once the benches emptied and the game settled bigs and guards kept attacking hard for small school crashing into and through defenders for more charges. Things started to get chippy as players were clearly more interested in knocking other girls down than actually trying to stop their feet and avoid the charge.

3) Age old debate: if player can move backwards or twist to protect themself, can they lean back to protect themself and still be legal and get PC call.

THanks!


Quality of topics and questions has been solid lately.

1) Charge.

2) Charge.

3) Yes.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

1) Charge

2) No -- each player can do this 5 times.

3) Yes

[Remington]

1. Had to be there. Typically a PC, but I can see a no call.
2. Charge
3. Yes

[Dad]

1) Charge.

2) Charge. I've called an intentional before instead of a charge but I really wouldn't do it unless I had to. If they are charging into players on purpose who aren't even looking then mayyyyyybe.

3) Yes, they can.

[Gutierrez7]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) Charge

2) No -- each player can do this 5 times.

3) Yes

Agreed!

Pantherdreams, thanks for your OP and describing your bias, "god daughter". However, I thought you did a good job trying to describe the situation.

Question 2: as mentioned above by Bob, 5 times and you sit down. Because you used the term, "Not excessive in the act but the frequency.", tough to go "intentional or flagrant". I'm not familiar with anything in the rules that may address this situation as a "travesty of the game". Perhaps other officials can offer another perspective, or an official can deploy my favorite rule: Rule 2 Section 3 REFEREE'S AUTHORITY. The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules. Tread carefully, but that's the best I can come up with.

[Nevadaref]

1. No foul. The defender was legal, but off balance and you write that the contact is minimal and not enough to put the defender at a disadvantage. When deciding upon a PC or TC foul, I look for the fact that the offensive player either displaced or knocked the defender down. If the defender falls on his own after minimal contact in an attempt to con the official into giving the opponent a cheap foul, I'm not obliging.

2. Just keep calling the fouls. If any of them are individually ridiculous, consider an intentional personal foul instead of a PC.

3. Yes, the defender may lean back. However, beware of the defender faking being fouled. If despite the leaning backwards, the offensive player still runs the defender over, the play is still a charge. On the other hand, don't get conned by a defender dropping on his own. This action always comes down to judgment.