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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:28am
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Are you implying that NCAA is non-conforming? Tsk Tsk
I'm saying that IMO (and really, my option plus $1 gets you a cup of coffee at Sheetz, but you have to bring your own mug) the CAA 4 umpire mechanics are written for a small group of individuals and do not generalize to the larger world of fastpitch softball.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:00pm
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4 Man in High school

During H S playoff season occasionally coaches ask for 4 umpires. We tell them it doesn't work in Softball with the small infield and furthermore if it was better NCAA World series would use 4. There goes that excuse!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:36pm
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You could always tell them that NFHS does not have 4 umpire mechanics! Of course that is if you aren't one of the handful of states that do not use NFHS mechanics.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2019, 05:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Slick View Post
I'm saying that IMO (and really, my option plus $1 gets you a cup of coffee at Sheetz, but you have to bring your own mug) the CAA 4 umpire mechanics are written for a small group of individuals and do not generalize to the larger world of fastpitch softball.
The "larger world of fastpitch softball" doesn't use 4-man. Yes, you mentioned WBSC, but that's just one organization. I would also include in that "larger world" USA Softball, NFHS, USSSA, NSA, PONY, and all the other variants of women's fast pitch. None of those others in the "larger world" have changed.

Sure, there are "rogue" high school associations that, for whatever reason, want to use four umpires in certain post-season championships. But where do they go to get their approved four-man mechanics? Certainly not the NFHS Softball Umpires Manual.

Same with USA Softball. You won't see a National Tournament use four umpires. At least not now; maybe things will change now that NCAA went there. There may be some local associations that go with four-man, but they, too, are flying by the seat of their Fechheimers when it comes to mechanics.

I attended an NCAA meeting last week, and there was discussion of four-man starting out in the bigger conferences to prep for post-season. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes beyond that pretty soon, moving into the smaller conferences and lower divisions.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2019, 05:37pm
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Cool Need a lot more

I am just wondering where all these umpires will come from.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:54am
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
The "larger world of fastpitch softball" doesn't use 4-man. Yes, you mentioned WBSC, but that's just one organization. I would also include in that "larger world" USA Softball, NFHS, USSSA, NSA, PONY, and all the other variants of women's fast pitch. None of those others in the "larger world" have changed.
That's exactly my point. The new 4 umpire mechanics should not be used in any of your mentioned organizations. The new mechanics have non-traditional conventions that are not part of the philosophy or standard mechanics in any organization, including the WBSC that use 4 umpire as their standard.

Quote:
Sure, there are "rogue" high school associations that, for whatever reason, want to use four umpires in certain post-season championships. But where do they go to get their approved four-man mechanics? Certainly not the NFHS Softball Umpires Manual.
Two points:
1- As I posted, there was formally a page for 4 umpire mechanics. It was removed.
2 - The high school organizations would have to then create their own mechanics system. PIAA (PA) has created their own 4 umpire mechanics guide that very much mirrors the WBSC system with some slight modifications. I am highly familiar with the PIAA four umpire mechanics .

Ohio also uses 4 umpires, as we have seen in the famous obstruction video. I'm not sure what they follow, but some clues on that play indicate a former version of the ISF four umpire system.

Quote:
Same with USA Softball. You won't see a National Tournament use four umpires. At least not now; maybe things will change now that NCAA went there. There may be some local associations that go with four-man, but they, too, are flying by the seat of their Fechheimers when it comes to mechanics.
a - 2002, 18 Gold. I worked a 4 umpire system on a winner's final game (loser's semi, loser's final and championship game all 4 umpires); 2005, women's major, championship game and scheduled IF game assigned 4 umpires. I have friends who have worked 4 umpires in modified nationals ("back in the day"). It was more common, but has become rare.

b - ASA used to have the one page 4 umpire mechanics as well (it was the same as the federation book that I posted earlier in this thread). Maybe it will come back, or at least the WBSC version as USA Softball trains more umpires for WBSC certification. I received my WBSC certification at a USA (ASA) national and worked two games at that national with the 4 umpire system, albeit the WBSC system.

Quote:
I attended an NCAA meeting last week, and there was discussion of four-man starting out in the bigger conferences to prep for post-season. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes beyond that pretty soon, moving into the smaller conferences and lower divisions.
Correct, some conferences are going to use 4 umpires for conference games. I think that is a good idea, as I have mentioned, the system does not rely on the standard concepts and conventions that we have been trained or are accustomed.

I highly doubt that the DII or DIII will ever see 4 umpires, even for post season play. This is a money issue, as how many DII or DIII conferences have three umpires for conference play?

Last edited by Big Slick; Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 11:19am.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2019, 08:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post

Same with USA Softball. You won't see a National Tournament use four umpires.
As previously noted, already done
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