best way to handle a check swing

[Scooby]

Sit: runner in 1st, 3-0 count, the pitch is out of the zone and called a ball. the runner advances and the catcher asks if she swung. HOw do you handle this ? And if your base umpire judges a swing, do you bring the runner back from second?

[CecilOne]

A runner can advance on either a ball or a strike.

[RKBUmp]

If the only reason the runner advanced was because of the ball 4 that was reversed on the check swing appeal, then yes, you return the runner. Its called umpire jeopardy.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

If the only reason the runner advanced was because of the ball 4 that was reversed on the check swing appeal, then yes, you return the runner. Its called umpire jeopardy.

And if the runner was stealing on the pitch, but the catcher didn't throw because of the ball 4 call?

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

And if the runner was stealing on the pitch, but the catcher didn't throw because of the ball 4 call?

If the delay of call or reversal of an umpires call allowed the runner to advance or affected the play, then fix it.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

If the delay of call or reversal of an umpires call allowed the runner to advance or affected the play, then fix it.

What is your criteria, beyond the runner standing on a base until a coach says ball four, go?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

If the only reason the runner advanced was because of the ball 4 that was reversed on the check swing appeal, then yes, you return the runner. Its called umpire jeopardy.

And if the catcher thought it was a swing, she should have followed through with the play.

You do not move the runner back.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Sit: runner in 1st, 3-0 count, the pitch is out of the zone and called a ball. the runner advances and the catcher asks if she swung. HOw do you handle this ? And if your base umpire judges a swing, do you bring the runner back from second?

How quickly do you call the pitch? There should be about one second between the ball hitting the glove and your call. If you delay sufficiently, the catcher should have already released the ball (or be most of the way through her throwing motion) to have any possibility of retiring a runner attempting to steal. In that case, there should be no doubt that if the catcher did not throw, it was because she was not going to throw whatever your call was.

[parrothead]

There was actually two scenarios this weekend that I was curious about and I think they got it wrong both times?

* where with bases loaded, what appeared to be ball 4 - catcher then tagged runner jogging home and then asked for appeal at 1B - umpire at 1B called the strike and they awarded the out. With rationale that they never said "ball 4 take your base" but it was ball 4 because home plate ump called it a ball.

* The other was on like a 1-2 count, ball in dirt, she kind of check swings ball hits off catcher and goes away umpire at home did not call ball, catcher goes and gets the ball, then tags runner then asks for appeal. Home ump didnt grant appeal saying needed to do it right away.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by parrothead

* where with bases loaded, what appeared to be ball 4 - catcher then tagged runner jogging home and then asked for appeal at 1B - umpire at 1B called the strike and they awarded the out. With rationale that they never said "ball 4 take your base" but it was ball 4 because home plate ump called it a ball.

If the umpire called a ball, return the runner to third after the appeal if called a strike.

* The other was on like a 1-2 count, ball in dirt, she kind of check swings ball hits off catcher and goes away umpire at home did not call ball, catcher goes and gets the ball, then tags runner then asks for appeal. Home ump didnt grant appeal saying needed to do it right away.

This umpire is confusing a baseball rule AND misapplying it. The baseball rules state that certain appeals need to be made before a play is made. If the catcher tags the batter before the strike is called, there is no play; the catcher is simply touching a batter with a 2-2 count. The "play" only matters once the strike has been called. As for softball rules, the appeal must be made before the next pitch, before the defense leaves fair ball territory or before the umpires leave the field.

In this situation, has the umpire put the batter-runner in jeopardy by calling a ball, causing the batter-runner not to run to first and to be tagged out?

Coincidentally, if a runner attempts a steal, is tagged out, and then the batter is called out on an appealed strike 3, the batter becomes the third out instead of the runner.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by EricH

This ruling puts the defense at a disadvantage. The catcher in effect must choose which out, the runner or the batter, he is willing to give up in order to take the other. There is no such rule in any softball organization i know of.

Which runner? I think the Parrot's post meant the Batter-Runner.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Which runner? I think the Parrot's post meant the Batter-Runner.

Ah, for some reason I created a runner between 3rd and home. Editing my original post.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by parrothead

T
* where with bases loaded, what appeared to be ball 4 - catcher then tagged runner jogging home and then asked for appeal at 1B - umpire at 1B called the strike and they awarded the out. With rationale that they never said "ball 4 take your base" but it was ball 4 because home plate ump called it a ball.

Umpires don't say that, or at least should not. Just "ball".

Changing the call does relate to umpire jeopardy, R1 back to 3rd, batter out if strike 3.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by parrothead

* The other was on like a 1-2 count, ball in dirt, she kind of check swings ball hits off catcher and goes away umpire at home did not call ball, catcher goes and gets the ball, then tags runner then asks for appeal. Home ump didnt grant appeal saying needed to do it right away.

I'm confused by this.
Did the PU call anything?

"tags runner then asks for appeal" apparently appealing the check swing, or maybe the BR not reaching 1st; but like I said, confusing.

"needed to do it right away"
An appeal can be until the next pitch, or all leaving field.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by 3afan

Unless you are 100% sure it was no-swing, then YES go to your partner. And if BU says YES she went, then YES bring her back w/ 3-1 count.

"Her" who? Batter or base runner?

The question refers to the base runner.