Runner fails to tag - dead ball is called....???

[josephrt1]

I don't do slow pitch but this situation seems to apply to fast pitch as well. My question is why was time called at all. I think the ball should have been kept live in this situation. if runner does not go back to 1st on his/her own, the defense has the responsibility to recognize it and make an appeal. If they don't make an appeal before the next pitch, then play stands and runner stays on 2nd. If runner recognizes he has a problem and starts to head back to 1st, defense will probably realize whats going on and make a live ball appeal or try to tag the runner directly while off the base. But in the case described, calling time complicated the situation.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

I don't do slow pitch but this situation seems to apply to fast pitch as well. My question is why was time called at all. I think the ball should have been kept live in this situation. if runner does not go back to 1st on his/her own, the defense has the responsibility to recognize it and make an appeal. If they don't make an appeal before the next pitch, then play stands and runner stays on 2nd. If runner recognizes he has a problem and starts to head back to 1st, defense will probably realize whats going on and make a live ball appeal or try to tag the runner directly while off the base. But in the case described, calling time complicated the situation.

From 2018 USA Softball Umpire Manual:

In the Slow Pitch game this is well defined, we call time whenever the ball is returned to the infield and all playing action has ceased.

In the Fast Pitch game this is not the case. In Fast Pitch, any umpire at the plate has the ability to call time when the umpires feel it is needed. This normally is when umpires have rotated and need to move to their next starting position. We should always call time when an umpire has chased a fly ball and needs to return back to their next starting position. Calling time can be accomplished without the ball in the circle, as long as all playing action has ceased. The purpose for calling time in a Fast Pitch game is to allow umpires to pre-pitch as they move to their next starting position. This does not mean you have to call TIME after every single play. When you are a student of the game and understand the game of Fast Pitch and are calling time at the appropriate intervals will actually speed up the game. This does not eliminate the ability for another umpire to call time if they ascertain the play dictates.

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

From 2018 USA Softball Umpire Manual:

In the Slow Pitch game this is well defined, we call time whenever the ball is returned to the infield and all playing action has ceased.

In the Fast Pitch game this is not the case. In Fast Pitch, any umpire at the plate has the ability to call time when the umpires feel it is needed. This normally is when umpires have rotated and need to move to their next starting position. We should always call time when an umpire has chased a fly ball and needs to return back to their next starting position. Calling time can be accomplished without the ball in the circle, as long as all playing action has ceased. The purpose for calling time in a Fast Pitch game is to allow umpires to pre-pitch as they move to their next starting position. This does not mean you have to call TIME after every single play. When you are a student of the game and understand the game of Fast Pitch and are calling time at the appropriate intervals will actually speed up the game. This does not eliminate the ability for another umpire to call time if they ascertain the play dictates.

The wording is quoted from the 2018 manual as you stated. I underlined one important phrase. "as long as all playing action has ceased". In the play described, had all action ceased? No one was moving but we had an opportunity for an appeal play or for a runner to return to touch a base left too soon. I still say time should not have been called in this case where a potential play still existed. Umpires should have moved to their next position without tipping off either team and then get ready for the next pitch.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

In the play described, had all action ceased? No one was moving ...

Seems like you answered your own question.

Maybe a longer pause by the PU would have triggered additional action. I did think that time may have been called too soon.

I did err on the part about the runner being able to return to first base once time had been called. That was Irish's notation from the RS#1.

I got that confused a bit with a ball that had gone out of play.

The dead ball appeal may be made:
1. Once runners have completed their advancement and time has been called. Runners must be given ample opportunity, in the umpire's judgment, to complete their base running responsibilities. Any infielder...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

The wording is quoted from the 2018 manual as you stated. I underlined one important phrase. "as long as all playing action has ceased". In the play described, had all action ceased? No one was moving but we had an opportunity for an appeal play or for a runner to return to touch a base left too soon. I still say time should not have been called in this case where a potential play still existed. Umpires should have moved to their next position without tipping off either team and then get ready for the next pitch.

It really doesn't matter, time was called and the runner must be given the opportunity to complete any running responsibilities prior to accepting the appeal.

You can "what if" this until all college pitchers throw legally, it isn't going to change anything.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You can "what if" this until all college pitchers throw legally, it isn't going to change anything.

A rare , no only

[jmkupka]

Irish, this is what I've always been unsure of...

1. Runner leaves early, arrives at next base.
2. Defense asks for time, umpire grants it.
3. Runner realizes defense is going to dead-ball appeal, heads back to 1B.
We deny the appeal?

The ball is dead because we granted time. We would never grant time unless, in our judgement, all runners have finished doing what they're gonna do (my paraphrase).