NCAA Softball 2 Out indicator

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

[b]
3. On a lone runner on a fly ball advancement.

When doing slow-pitch games, I usually pre-game this coverage with my partner that PU will take the runner into third while BU takes the tag up at second.

On a line drive to an outfielder, it's tough for a BU to get from "B" to cover third base. The umpire would almost always be trailing the runner and not have the best angle (not to mention distance).

At least PU can work for a superior angle. Unless it's a ball down the RF line which the PU has to hang for fair/foul and catch/no catch. But that would be similar to what the PU would have to do if it was a one ump game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I think these are wonderful guidelines. Not sure how "previous" you want to get, but these guidelines have been around as long as I have, and I wore an Elbeco for many years.

Yep, and I still have some in my closet

You say: "prioritizing when necessary" is exactly the point of the fourth guideline. Both PU and BU have to read the throw - does it go to third, does it go home or does it get cut - and then read the play from there. What this prevents is a PU who get so focused on the run scoring that a BU is now stranded. Not to mention the dimensions of the slow pitch field are bigger now (for the typical SP umpire - yes, I know the major/super level was always larger).

I've worked 80' fields and yes, it takes some adjustment, but is not that bad once it kicks in how far you need to go.

I am referring to prioritizing the runners.

The PU should be focused on the lead runner and the ball. As long as there is the possibility of a play at the plate, the PU must keep a position that will allow him to make that call and the BU must be available to make a call involving any other runner. Even if the PU does head down to 3rd for a call, he cannot just drop the responsibility of the lead runner and must turn his head and look to the plate on an out call as that runner is the most important on the field at that time. Like I said, don't care much for absolutes in this mechanic.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I am referring to prioritizing the runners.

The PU should be focused on the lead runner and the ball.

Actually, no. You read the play, which involves two runners and a throw.

As long as there is the possibility of a play at the plate, the PU must keep a position that will allow him to make that call and the BU must be available to make a call involving any other runner. Even if the PU does head down to 3rd for a call, he cannot just drop the responsibility of the lead runner and must turn his head and look to the plate on an out call as that runner is the most important on the field at that time. Like I said, don't care much for absolutes in this mechanic.

Mike, you are dangerously close to a "third world, what if" (well, sort of).

Yes, prioritizing the play -- that's what the mechanic is all about. You use the HOLDING ZONE to read the play and then react to the throw. The HZ is defined as the area about half way (notice the "about", so there isn't an absolute distance). A good PU will read runners coming home and outfielders throwing home, thus PU will not go that far into the HZ, stay at home and then react to the play. On a play where the runner scores easily and the throw is to third, PU needs to get "further" into the HZ and cover the "non-last" runner into third.

Pretty solid guidelines, and not see how this is absolute. If PU is unsure of the throw, PU needs to communicate the BU where he is.

My emphasis on your play: you are trying to say that PU goes to third -ON THE THROW- and then there is a snap throw and/or play at home? Even with me (yes me, with all the speed of an aging Sid Bream) rounding third and heading home is that even a remote possibility. PU goes to third because there is no play being made on the runner coming home and a play at third.

To me the problem arises when PU "stay home" with the runner scoring "because I have to watch the runner" (I say with my usual snark) and not go to third on the throw.

[jmkupka]

At the risk of assuming I know Mike's mind...

I think he's addressing the main point of the topic (the timing play).
Once PU sees the play won't be at HP, his mechanic is to cover the play at 3B, then to see the crossing of the plate, and make the Timing call himself.

(please god let me be right)

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

At the risk of assuming I know Mike's mind...

I think he's addressing the main point of the topic (the timing play).
Once PU sees the play won't be at HP, his mechanic is to cover the play at 3B, then to see the crossing of the plate, and make the Timing call himself.

(please god let me be right)

Unfortunately, that's not the mechanic. The plate umpire uses the HZ and reads the play, which could be 1) lead runner into home (1a: ball is cut and/or thrown to plate and play is made on "middle runner" or BR, which is covered by BU at any base); 2) "middle runner" into 3rd (considering: with two out, PU would need to cover this play and then make a determination of the timing at home); 3) "middle runner" at home.

As Mike said: "prioritize" but I will add "read the play." There is no automatic "stay at home" or "go to third" at any time. Mike's point was about "absolutes," which I certainly do not see here. I see primary responsibilities and then adjusting to the play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Actually, I said prioritize the runner, not the play though you may consider them the same.

Personally, I'd rather see the BU handle R2 & BR with the PU staying ahead of the lead runner. IMO, and I know it doesn't coincide with the official mechanics, that lead runner is the most important runner on the basepaths.