NCAA Softball 2 Out indicator

[Rlspls1974]

I'm new to NCAA Softball so be gentle.
What is the purpose of using the two out indicator communication between umpires?
Pg. 62 of the CCA manual has a picture. States the signal is used with two outs and no runners on second or first.

[teebob21]

The idea behind the new 2-out indicator is to communicate between umpires that we have two outs, and a time play is not likely, e.g. no runners or R3 only. Frankly, I don't know why this was needed as the time-play signal (tap wrist with two fingers) serves both purposes AND reminds us to be alert for time plays.

[Rlspls1974]

Thanks TeeBob21, makes sense and I agree, why is it needed.
Appreciate the feedback!

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by teebob21

The idea behind the new 2-out indicator is to communicate between umpires that we have two outs, and a time play is not likely, e.g. no runners or R3 only. Frankly, I don't know why this was needed as the time-play signal (tap wrist with two fingers) serves both purposes AND reminds us to be alert for time plays.

I don't do NCAA, but is a runner on third only indicated by "R3"?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I don't do NCAA, but is a runner on third only indicated by "R3"?

No, not officially. Edit: yes. I prefer that shorthand for all case plays, even though it is not standard usage across all codes. Thanks to Crabby Bob for reminding me to go look in the manual.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I don't do NCAA, but is a runner on third only indicated by "R3"?

Yes, for example, see the CCA manual page 66.

[Manny A]

It’s the new leadership’s way of reverting softball umpiring back to its baseball counterparts, according to some. I was taught that indicator when I first started umpiring in LL baseball. Same with the “point to the sky” on the Infield Fly, and the change to get to as close as 3’ on a tag play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

The idea behind the new 2-out indicator is to communicate between umpires that we have two outs, and a time play is not likely, e.g. no runners or R3 only. Frankly, I don't know why this was needed as the time-play signal (tap wrist with two fingers) serves both purposes AND reminds us to be alert for time plays.

Any time the number of outs and active runners add up to 3, there is the possibility of a timing play.

[jmkupka]

bases loaded, no outs... you're absolutely right.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

bases loaded, no outs... you're absolutely right.

This is why I keep coming here - this forum makes me a better umpire. This comment thread, specifically, made me more aware on the field in a recent juco game: 8th inning, tiebreaker time. The visitors scored 2 in the top of the inning, leading 6-4 or something like that. The home team loaded the bases with one out. Either team could win the game on the very next pitch.

As PU, I made sure to communicate with my partner that we needed to watch for time plays even with 1 out, since the game-winning runner was on base. He couldn't hear me from behind the shortstop without me yelling, so I signaled a "1" with my finger, then pointed to my head and gave a time-play tap-the-watch signal. I did it twice so he knew that I knew there was one out, not two.

Luckily, I had an attentive and aware partner, who gave me a nod on the field, echoed the time-play signal, and told me in postgame that he knew what I was signalling, given the game situation.

[umpjim]

So do some or all softball codes signal time play when any of the conditions are met or only when the conditions are met with a game ending situation? Do you signal it with 2 outs and R1? As to @teebob21 signal, what does your BU do differently when that signal is given?

[teebob21]

I've never seen it in any manual saying to do what I did. I did it because I thought it was the right time to make sure the crew was on the same page. With R1 and 2 outs, we'd give the signal as a matter of routine.

As far as what does BU do differently in a game-winning time-play scenario vs. a "regular" one, I don't know. In those scenarios, we still have the same responsibilities as we do on every pitch. One thing I might do if I was BU in that scenario would be to try to sneak a super fast peek in the direction of home if we were going to have a potential tag play. Not long enough to lose focus of my responsibilities, and not to take over my partner's call, but just a peek to know he was at least watching and our time-play call will be credible.

[CecilOne]

There at no such signals in USA or NFHS. Just mental pre-pitch.

[IRISHMAFIA]

With the exception of a possible rotation in a 3/4 umpire system, why would anyone other than the PU need to be aware of this situation?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

With the exception of a possible rotation in a 3/4 umpire system, why would anyone other than the PU need to be aware of this situation?

For the same reason base umpires should be aware of the count on every pitch, IMO. Each official should be aware of what the game situation is, even if they don't have any responsibility whatsoever for that potential call.