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Old Thu Nov 16, 2017, 08:15am
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USA change 4 - appeals

Rule 8, Section 7F-I Effect, [3] (Dead Ball Appeal): Once the ball has been returned to the infield and time is called, any COACH or infielder, with or without possession of the ball, may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving too soon on a caught fly ball. No runner may leave a base during this period as the ball remains dead until the next pitch.

Comment: Adds a coach to those who can make a dead ball appeal.
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Old Thu Nov 16, 2017, 10:33am
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Rule 8, Section 7F-I Effect, [3] (Dead Ball Appeal): Once the ball has been returned to the infield and time is called, any COACH or infielder, with or without possession of the ball, may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving too soon on a caught fly ball. No runner may leave a base during this period as the ball remains dead until the next pitch.

Comment: Adds a coach to those who can make a dead ball appeal.
Makes sense for JO. Having the coach have to use a player as a conduit just wastes time.
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Old Thu Nov 16, 2017, 04:07pm
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The chang, as written, suggests that a coach can be in possession of the ball while making an appeal.

On a more serious note, I agree with Dakota. Why not let the coach make the appeal directly as opposed to "Hey, Sam, tell the umpire the runner missed third base." "What?" "I said..." etc.
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Last edited by Stat-Man; Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 04:10pm.
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Old Thu Nov 16, 2017, 05:55pm
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Originally Posted by Stat-Man View Post
The chang, as written, suggests that a coach can be in possession of the ball while making an appeal.
He can.
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Old Thu Nov 16, 2017, 10:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stat-Man View Post
The chang, as written, suggests that a coach can be in possession of the ball while making an appeal.

On a more serious note, I agree with Dakota. Why not let the coach make the appeal directly as opposed to "Hey, Sam, tell the umpire the runner missed third base." "What?" "I said..." etc.
Or you train the kids to know the game and how to handle all aspects of it. When I first started umpiring, it was baseball 8-13 yo and they had no problem making appeals without direction of a coach.
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Old Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:16pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Or you train the kids to know the game and how to handle all aspects of it. When I first started umpiring, it was baseball 8-13 yo and they had no problem making appeals without direction of a coach.
I would agree with you that players and umpires should know the game. But they don't. Cliff Lee was balked in MLB for appealing while in contact. He then acknowledged that he screwed up, except he didn't. Appealing can be a goat rope for players, coaches, and umpires. You and me have the reading comprehension to get it right by the old rules. But reading and comprehending is not everyone's strong point in current generations or even your or my generation in some cases. So it has to be dumbed down. Saving grace, the offender did miss or leave the base early. I don't like it but that's how it is.
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Old Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Or you train the kids to know the game and how to handle all aspects of it. When I first started umpiring, it was baseball 8-13 yo and they had no problem making appeals without direction of a coach.
As mentioned in another post just recently, we can't even get adult umpires on the same page as to what t-shirts to wear.

You can lead the horse to water...
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Old Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Or you train the kids to know the game and how to handle all aspects of it. When I first started umpiring, it was baseball 8-13 yo and they had no problem making appeals without direction of a coach.
While knowing how to make an appeal is a part of the issue, the more common issue for dead ball appeals, in my experience, is the players not noticing that there was a missed base, etc.

If the coach sees it, it is just more efficient if he just makes the appeal directly rather than yelling to his players, potentially back and forth a couple of times.
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Old Sat Nov 18, 2017, 06:53pm
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
While knowing how to make an appeal is a part of the issue, the more common issue for dead ball appeals, in my experience, is the players not noticing that there was a missed base, etc.

If the coach sees it, it is just more efficient if he just makes the appeal directly rather than yelling to his players, potentially back and forth a couple of times.
Again, it is all about teaching them the game and how to play it.
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Old Wed Nov 22, 2017, 02:54pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Again, it is all about teaching them the game and how to play it.
And, again, I'm talking about the reality of the game as it is, not as it could be with better coaches and better players.
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Old Wed Nov 22, 2017, 08:33pm
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
And, again, I'm talking about the reality of the game as it is, not as it could be with better coaches and better players.
Doesn't mean they cannot try. After all, isn't that their job? Doesn't that what the term "coach" means
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Old Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:32pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Doesn't mean they cannot try. After all, isn't that their job? Doesn't that what the term "coach" means
I agree with you in principle... I'm just being selfish... keep things moving.
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Old Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:52pm
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
I agree with you in principle... .
Something to be thankful for this week.
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Old Thu Dec 07, 2017, 02:06pm
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Hereís an even more radical thought: how about just doing away with appeals altogether, and have Umpires make the calls when they see the violations? Iím not sure where this process came from in baseball and softball, but I believe they are the only two team sports where officials see violations, but canít do a damn thing about them until the defense appeals? Why? And why only baserunning gaffes? Why donít we allow for appeals by the offense when a fielder fails to tag a base or catch a sinking line drive?

There are no appeals in football when a player is guilty of being offsides or moving before the snap. There are no appeals in basketball when a player travels or steps on the line while touching the ball. A hockey or soccer player who is offsides gets penalized immediately, and not when a coach requests an appeal. If a runner canít run the bases properly, why give him/her the free pass if the defense doesnít catch it? Let us make the call right away. It would certainly speed up the game.
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Old Thu Dec 07, 2017, 02:40pm
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I agree, not only would it speed up the game, but would stop a lot of arguments about if a runner left early, missed the base etc.
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