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Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 11:56am
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that coach

He wanted shoulder and neck high pitches called a strike.
He constantly asked the catcher where a pitch was (answer “high” each time).
He came out of the dugout once to ask the PU when the catcher shrugged.

He wanted an automatic base on an obstruction.
He objected to the BU confirming a catch on strike 3. Same on a missed tag.
He wanted an out on LBR when the pitcher faked a throw.
You would think a 16&U coach would know better by now.
His manner was irritating most of the time.
He kept announcing the count of calls/rulings he disagreed with.

Yes, probably too patient, and you probably will say so; especially for the next crew. Thought he would go over the edge any moment; making it him, not umpire feelings.

p.s. the opposing coach was a model of patience and understanding.
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Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 05:16pm
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Considering you said 16U level, I wonder if it wasn't a high school coach who is having a hard time adjusting to the pace of travel ball? And if he was behind in the score, all of that complaining just hurt him even more.
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Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 06:11pm
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Announcing how many calls you missed? That is a ticket to the exits from my point of view. That is directly challenging your credibility as an official and is beyond simply disagreeing with you. He is broadcasting a provocative and personal statement. Given all of the rest of his behavior, he should be ejected.

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Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 06:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbilica View Post
Announcing how many calls you missed? That is a ticket to the exits from my point of view. That is directly challenging your credibility as an official and is beyond simply disagreeing with you. He is broadcasting a provocative and personal statement. Given all of the rest of his behavior, he should be ejected.

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Please note the distinction between calls missed and calls disagreed.
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Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 06:25pm
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Please note the distinction between calls missed and calls disagreed.
That is a pretty fine line if you are trying to walk that one.

I will say that I am sorry you had to deal with that. It isn't fun to deal with a coach who is a jerk. It ruins the game.

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Last edited by Mbilica; Sun Jun 25, 2017 at 06:39pm.
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Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 06:37pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Give a coach enough rope and you'll trip over it.
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Old Sun Jun 25, 2017, 11:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
He wanted shoulder and neck high pitches called a strike.
He constantly asked the catcher where a pitch was (answer “high” each time).
He came out of the dugout once to ask the PU when the catcher shrugged.

He wanted an automatic base on an obstruction.
He objected to the BU confirming a catch on strike 3. Same on a missed tag.
He wanted an out on LBR when the pitcher faked a throw.
You would think a 16&U coach would know better by now.
His manner was irritating most of the time.
He kept announcing the count of calls/rulings he disagreed with.

Yes, probably too patient, and you probably will say so; especially for the next crew. Thought he would go over the edge any moment; making it him, not umpire feelings.

p.s. the opposing coach was a model of patience and understanding.
Rough games happen. It sucks, but they happen. May I rant for a bit?

Someone once told me: "You only regret the ejections you don't have." It's very true. I have fewer than 20 EJ's in 19 years, but I've never gone home thinking "I shouldn't have dumped that guy." More often, I'm discussing it over beers, wishing I had tossed the belligerent coach. If you're getting ridden like a rented mule: IAWE - Ignore, Acknowledge, Warn, Eject. That may be a baseball mentality, but I don't care.

(Long story warning) Last year, at a relatively high level tournament, I had a team that just....SUCKED to work with. Everything was worth bitching and moaning about. In fact, if you dig through my post history, you'll find a post about a call I made in one of their games: an INT call at 2B on a double play. It was a call I probably should not have made, but it was the best call in my judgment at the time.

When I made that call, the assistant coach at 1B nearly lost his mind. He'd been ejected once during that tournament, and I was not giving him much rope. He came out to 2B to gripe, and when he saw I wasn't going to go for "help" he walked off...as he did, he gave me a parting shot on the way. I said "[NAME], that's enough!" and that was that. No more complaints the rest of the rain-shortened game.

The UIC at this event gave me feedback in the postgame that using the coach's name might have escalated the situation. I get that, I see how that could happen. But in the moment, that was the best warning I could have used. To me, the rest of the game proves that.

Use the tools you have. This isn't basketball; we can't give out technical fouls. We can either warn or eject. Don't be shy about using what we have.
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Old Mon Jun 26, 2017, 09:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post

I said "[NAME], that's enough!" and that was that. No more complaints the rest of the rain-shortened game.

The UIC at this event gave me feedback in the postgame that using the coach's name might have escalated the situation. I get that, I see how that could happen. But in the moment, that was the best warning I could have used. To me, the rest of the game proves that.

I agree 100% with what you did. WAY too many coaches have a very deranged mentality nowadays. They treat that field like Las Vegas or whatever, and they live by the mentality that what happens on that field, stays on that field. As a result, they have this sense of a free ticket to just treat umpires and fellow coaches and players like dirt during the game. Then, when the game is over, they're the ones walking up to you in the concession line patting you on the back and laughing about the whole thing. I don't subscribe to that thinking--they should be respectful and treat you just the same as anywhere else. When you called him by his name, you sent a message loud and clear that you don't subscribe to the "field amnesia" either. Personally, I'd like to see more ejections at some of the school and travel games I watch. Some people are out of control.
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Old Mon Jun 26, 2017, 09:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbilica View Post
That is a pretty fine line if you are trying to walk that one.
Do you really think that when missed is one or fewer and disagreed is several or many?
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 26, 2017, 11:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Do you really think that when missed is one or fewer and disagreed is several or many?
I suppose I would have to be there. My point is that disagreeing openly with judgement calls is not acceptable. Saying openly that you missed judgement calls is even more unacceptable. Either will undermine your role as an arbiter of the game. Players and spectators will respond tp disrespect from the coach, since he has the authority for his team by the nature of his position. If you allow a coach to argue judgement calls and then announce the number of times you were wrong in his opinion, that opinion will be accepted by his players and the fans. If you then render a judgement call, no one will believe that you got it right. They will think you are, at best, a partisan figure who is acting on behalf of the other team, or at worst, a clueless individual who is just trying to rob their kids of any joy and happiness from playing the game. In fact, it is the coach who is sapping the joy from the game. Sports only make sense if the decisions made by officials are accepted by all participants. Questioning calls and counting them out, in my opinion, is conduct so unsporting that it deserves an ejection. I understand your perspective, but I personally don't think disagreement comes in multiple flavors when you are being public, personal, and provocative about it.

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Old Mon Jun 26, 2017, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbilica View Post
Announcing how many calls you missed? That is a ticket to the exits from my point of view. That is directly challenging your credibility as an official and is beyond simply disagreeing with you. He is broadcasting a provocative and personal statement. Given all of the rest of his behavior, he should be ejected.

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I will discuss a call with a coach or answer questions about a call. When that discussion is over or the question answered, that call is history.

When I get the "That's 3 calls you've missed now!" type statement, my response is "Coach, if you want to count things, there are plenty of cars in the parking lot" Seems to get the message across.....
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