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Old Fri Jun 09, 2017, 12:53pm
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Holding up the pitch

Holding your hand toward the pitcher as the batter gets set (as we all do) is not time out. It is merely saying "do not start your pitch yet".

My stance, from what I've read here, is it's still a live ball, and any LBR violations will be enforced.

To a man, all of my colleagues, many of whom work college ball, say they would never enforce it.

My philosophy has always been, if a coach knowledgable in the rules takes me to task, will my ruling survive a protest.

Where can I find the rule that will support my above call?

And I'm not referring to any "gotcha" call, but a legitimate off-the-base call.
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Old Fri Jun 09, 2017, 01:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkupka View Post
Holding your hand toward the pitcher as the batter gets set (as we all do) is not time out. It is merely saying "do not start your pitch yet".

My stance, from what I've read here, is it's still a live ball, and any LBR violations will be enforced.

To a man, all of my colleagues, many of whom work college ball, say they would never enforce it.

My philosophy has always been, if a coach knowledgable in the rules takes me to task, will my ruling survive a protest.

Where can I find the rule that will support my above call?

And I'm not referring to any "gotcha" call, but a legitimate off-the-base call.
You should only hold up the pitcher if she is making a motion to pitch and the batter isn't ready. The batter merely getting ready should not necessitate PU holding up the pitcher -- this would including anytime the pitcher is a) not on the pitcher's plate or b) on the pitcher's plate and hands not together.

If you follow these guidelines, you are basically stopping the pitcher from pitching (because she is starting) and you are stopping play.
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Old Fri Jun 09, 2017, 01:34pm
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I don't stand there with my hand up, holding up the pitcher; I consider that micromanaging. Let the players play the game, at their pace, with us managing only when they violate.

If the pitcher waits, there was no need to manage her.

If the pitcher pitches before the batter has had a chance to get set, it's "no pitch", and I tell the pitcher she cannot pitch before the batter has had a chance to get set. For the most part, they will then wait long enough. If she does it repetitively, I advise her (and her coach) the next violation will be her last opportunity to continue in the game. I've never needed to get past that point.

If you aren't managing what doesn't need to be managed, there is no issue to your question.
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Old Fri Jun 09, 2017, 02:31pm
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I don't mean to describe the pitcher at the back of the circle, PU with his arm needlessly extended.
Pitcher has a habit of moving quickly.
Batter is asking for a moment to get dug in.
Arm goes up.
R1 on 2B cranes her neck to see the signal from F2, and comes off the base; It happens.
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Old Fri Jun 09, 2017, 08:12pm
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Ump Steve explained it pretty well. The pitcher is obligated to wait in all codes. The USA/ASA specific wording in Rule 6, section 10.B is.

It is No Pitch ...."When the pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken a position in the batter’s box or when the batter is off balance."

If the pitcher pitches before the batter is set, it is a no pitch and a "quick pitch".

Last fall during a 12U game a coach came to me and asked about my instruction to the pitcher to wait. She said she wasn't familiar with ASA rules because she coached college. She asked if it was a rule to protect the little kids. I told her i did not ump college but that i had the college rule book on my phone and I was sure it was in there. showed it to her between games and she really was surprised, which really surprised me.

I only hold my hand up if the pitcher is not waiting and then I expect the pitcher to stop the quick pitch. Usually get some flak from the dugout. "Blue, her feet are in the box." Only once had to give a warning to make it stop.
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Old Fri Jun 09, 2017, 09:17pm
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I believe the base question of the original post was if the umpire has their hand up holding the pitcher until the batter is ready is time out. The answer is no, time is not out the umpire is simply instructing the pitcher with a hand signal to not throw the pitch.
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Old Sat Jun 10, 2017, 08:04pm
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I have always tried to establish in the 1st inning, with both pitchers, the idea of maintaining eye contact with both pitchers - i.e. - if looking at the batter who has the foot out of the box - I am not in my set position, don't pitch; once I start getting into my set position, and making eye contact - it's ok to start the pitching process. It works 99.9999% of the time, and I never have to raise an arm, and I hardly ever have to say anything. As a result, my games behind the plate usually move pretty smoothly with very little problems.

Also with batters, even if they are keeping the one foot in, but taking 5...6..7 swings, I will - very quietly, after the 5th swing, just go "ok". It doesn't take long for them to take only 4 or 5, and I generally never have any problems there either. Again, I have established control without ever raising my voice once.

This way, when I HAVE to raise my voice on something, it is 1000% more effective. It's amazing the number of umpires who never understand this.
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Last edited by ASA/NYSSOBLUE; Sat Jun 10, 2017 at 08:08pm.
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Old Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:26am
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You're correct RKB, it is the sole purpose of my question. Asked and answered. Thanks.
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Old Tue Jun 13, 2017, 07:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkupka View Post
You're correct RKB, it is the sole purpose of my question. Asked and answered. Thanks.
Live ball.
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Old Tue Jun 13, 2017, 09:08am
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Originally Posted by EsqUmp View Post
Live ball.
Which is part of my discomfort with this.
Live ball while telling the pitcher and catcher (and batter), probably other defenders; AND the base umpire(s) less alert to the runners.
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Old Tue Jun 13, 2017, 09:45am
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My original post was intended to address circle violations on the part of base runners, but I suppose illegal F1 actions could also be brought up.
e.g., I'm holding up the pitch while batter gets dug in, F1 wants to cancel her pitch and steps back off the PP while her hands are still together.
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