3 man rotation question

[DTQ_Blue]

Playoff time, we're working 3-man. Runner at first, we are rotated, I'm U1. Batter sac bunts, and is out at first, and while that is happening, the runner notices that 3rd is left uncovered and never stops, going to third like bat out of hell. I pause my out call long enough to make sure that F3 isn't going to drop the ball and the runner is nearly to third when I notice where she is. U3 is at second and PU is at third where he should be. Runner makes no attempt to go home, but if for some reason she did, I was nowhere near home plate. So normally in 3 man, U1 rotates home when PU rotates to third, but, U1 doesn't normally have to stay near 1B as long as I did. Any thoughts on covering that play?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Playoff time, we're working 3-man. Runner at first, we are rotated, I'm U1. Batter sac bunts, and is out at first, and while that is happening, the runner notices that 3rd is left uncovered and never stops, going to third like bat out of hell. I pause my out call long enough to make sure that F3 isn't going to drop the ball and the runner is nearly to third when I notice where she is. U3 is at second and PU is at third where he should be. Runner makes no attempt to go home, but if for some reason she did, I was nowhere near home plate. So normally in 3 man, U1 rotates home when PU rotates to third, but, U1 doesn't normally have to stay near 1B as long as I did. Any thoughts on covering that play?

The highlighted line is a little confusing.

PU needs to take this runner home. Since there was no play at 3B s/he should not have needed to commit to 3B. The only negative is that the PU must be aware s/he cannot move into a position between F3 and the plate

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The highlighted line is a little confusing.

PU needs to take this runner home. Since there was no play at 3B s/he should not have needed to commit to 3B. The only negative is that the PU must be aware s/he cannot move into a position between R3 and the plate

Now I'm confused.
My understanding, based on someone being ahead of the lead runner, is the PU covering 3rd, regardless of where the fielders are
and the U1 rotating home when the PU does that, even if late.
Then, the PU can judge where the play is going; possibly call off the U1 if the U1 is too late.

Additionally, this shows the value of BOTH pre-game and pre-pitch.

[falsecut]

Uh, where is the third umpire?


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[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by falsecut

Uh, where is the third umpire?


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With a runner on first, U3 would be behind 2nd base.

[falsecut]

Originally Posted by falsecut

Uh, where is the third umpire?


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Ok, read this initially wrong so never mind question. Seems like U1 better be able to make call and move 60 feet before R1 moves 180 feet. While difficult, that shouldn't be impossible even for a slower ump.


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[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

With a runner on first, U3 would be behind 2nd base.

And now responsible for 2nd and 1st if there would have been any play.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by falsecut

Ok, read this initially wrong so never mind question. Seems like U1 better be able to make call and move 60 feet before R1 moves 180 feet. While difficult, that shouldn't be impossible even for a slower ump.


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Agree that it should work, but with different numbers.
The rotation is to the RH box side of HP, from a position 12 - 15 feet outside 1st; so about 85 feet; starting when R1 approaches 2nd, so 120 feet for her.

[DTQ_Blue]

Disagree with "starting when R1 approaches 2nd" because the out hasn't occurred at 1B yet. Remember R1 gets off the base on the release of the pitch and takes off when the bunt is laid down so she is already at 2B when the out is made. But as I said, I don't want to rush the call because I've seen F3s drop a ball that appeared to be caught, so I pause for a second or two and R1 is on her way to 3B. Yes, I should have gone home as soon as I made my call at 1B, but that "as soon" is not as soon as it would be on a base hit where there is no play at 1B and I would release for home much sooner.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Playoff time, we're working 3-man. Runner at first, we are rotated, I'm U1. Batter sac bunts, and is out at first, and while that is happening, the runner notices that 3rd is left uncovered and never stops, going to third like bat out of hell. I pause my out call long enough to make sure that F3 isn't going to drop the ball and the runner is nearly to third when I notice where she is.......

Any thoughts on covering that play?

Once the play at first is over, your responsibility is to cover home if your PU has rotated to third. U3 now has first and second.

On your play, the ball is still in the infield, so the next most likely play is at third base. PU is there to cover that. If there is a bad throw or bobble that allows the runner to attempt to advance, you should have had plenty of time to get to good position for a play at the plate.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Andy

Once the play at first is over, your responsibility is to cover home if your PU has rotated to third. U3 now has first and second.

On your play, the ball is still in the infield, so the next most likely play is at third base. PU is there to cover that. If there is a bad throw or bobble that allows the runner to attempt to advance, you should have had plenty of time to get to good position for a play at the plate.

Yup, what Andy said. As a matter of fact, Andy and I worked three-man a couple weeks ago. I actually specifically pre-gamed this play with him (I was U1, he was U3) and asked him to push me if I failed to rotate home in a timely manner after the BR reached first base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Now I'm confused.

Corrected

My understanding, based on someone being ahead of the lead runner, is the PU covering 3rd, regardless of where the fielders are
and the U1 rotating home when the PU does that, even if late.
Then, the PU can judge here the play is going; possibly call off the U1 if the U1 is too late.

The PU has way less that half the distance to cover and doesn't have to traverse the area between the player with the ball and the plate.

BTW, I'm addressing the OP only. Personally, as a UIC, I'd rather U1 be sure and confident with the play @ 1B than worrying about getting to foul territory and to the far side of the plate prior to the runner approaching. The coverage of 3rd & home is a relatively easy task for the PU with just one runner to watch.

[CecilOne]

Let's say the OP runner gets to 3rd but the throw goes over and R1 tries for home, creating a rundown. If the PU had come into fair to make the call, does the PU stay in fair and the U1 takes the foul side of the rundown?

It seems obvious, but I seem to have heard the PU always takes the foul side of a rundown. Is that only in 2 ump?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Let's say the OP runner gets to 3rd but the throw goes over and R1 tries for home, creating a rundown. If the PU had come into fair to make the call, does the PU stay in fair and the U1 takes the foul side of the rundown?

It seems obvious, but I seem to have heard the PU always takes the foul side of a rundown. Is that only in 2 ump?

Look at it this way; once the PU goes to 3rd, and U1 covers home on the rotation, which one is functionally the PU?

For all and any reasons you heard explaining why the PU needs to be on the foul side, those same principles apply to U1 covering home in the rotation.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Look at it this way; once the PU goes to 3rd, and U1 covers home on the rotation, which one is functionally the PU?

For all and any reasons you heard explaining why the PU needs to be on the foul side, those same principles apply to U1 covering home in the rotation.

As I said, seems obvious, but glad I know I can say so to those who differ.

Another Q, starting with U3 at 2nd and no chasing,
Is it ever appropriate or expected for U3 to cover 3rd?
If so, if and when?