NFHS - Diving catch on collapsing fence

[AtlUmpSteve]

Yes. Dead ball, catch and carry when a support point was established beyond the dead ball line (base of fence); you originally only said crashed into, but feet remained in live territory (and I stopped reading, I guess).

The NFHS definition of a catch (and NCAA rules) requires both secure possession AND a voluntary and intentional release. You are substituting the USA/ASA definition that says "and/or", and interpretation that includes "if the fielder could have voluntarily released, but simply didn't yet". I would be happy if the rules are the same, but they aren't, and the context you reference is the USA/ASA rule only.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The NFHS definition of a catch (and NCAA rules) requires both secure possession AND a voluntary and intentional release. You are substituting the USA/ASA definition that says "and/or", and interpretation that includes "if the fielder could have voluntarily released, but simply didn't yet". I would be happy if the rules are the same, but they aren't, and the context you reference is the USA/ASA rule only.

Does it make a difference in practice? In the case of the third out and F3 trips over the chalk on the circle line and lets the ball roll out of her glove on to the pitchers plate on her way down, are you really ruling safe?
What's the play where on the field you'd rule differently based on the difference in those rules? The one in the OP?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

Does it make a difference in practice? In the case of the third out and F3 trips over the chalk on the circle line and lets the ball roll out of her glove on to the pitchers plate on her way down, are you really ruling safe?
What's the play where on the field you'd rule differently based on the difference in those rules? The one in the OP?

Fair question.

In both your and the prior "example" (outfielder drops ball in the infield) case plays, I could see ruling the release, WELL AFTER the possession was voluntary and intentional. But in the OP, sorry, as described, I believe see that as a loss of possession before a voluntary release.

I am reminded of a baseball game I watched in mid-80's, when Atlanta Braves were "America's Team", according to TBS Superstation broadcasts. Left fielder Albert Hall "caught" a ball probably 20 feet or more in fair territory on a dead run headed to the foul line, couldn't stop, and dropped the ball after flipping over the short wall. Ruling: ground rule (we know it is a book rule two base award, not a ground rule) double; not a voluntary release. There is no such rule in softball (or, to my knowledge, in baseball) that defines "long enough" as possession.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Yes. Dead ball, catch and carry when a support point was established beyond the dead ball line (base of fence); you originally only said crashed into, but feet remained in live territory (and I stopped reading, I guess).

The NFHS definition of a catch (and NCAA rules) requires both secure possession AND a voluntary and intentional release. You are substituting the USA/ASA definition that says "and/or", and interpretation that includes "if the fielder could have voluntarily released, but simply didn't yet". I would be happy if the rules are the same, but they aren't, and the context you reference is the USA/ASA rule only.

2.9.2 SITUATION B:

B1 hits to F5. The throw to F3 is wide so that it is necessary for F3 to stretch for the catch. The ball arrives in time but as F3 attempts to regain balance she loses possession of the ball. Is the runner out?

RULING: The time element has some influence, but in case of doubt, the umpire will rule the runner safe. Attempts to regain balance after receiving the ball are usually considered a part of the act of catching, and if the fielder does not come up with possession of the ball, it is not considered a catch. In all such cases, there is a judgment factor. If the ball is clearly in possession, and if some other new movement not related to the catch is then made and if the ball is fumbled during such new movement, the umpire will usually declare it a catch followed by a fumble.