Miscellaneous Rules

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I believe there is a case play of the exact situation. Any play that takes the fielder into foul ground they can use the safety base. About the only things the defense can't do with the safety base is field the ball in fair territory and then only step on the safety base or set up on the safety base for a throw from fair territory.

Out is the correct call.

14U Class C tournament this weekend: Strike 3 is uncaught, and bounces off of F2 and rolls in fair ground to F1. F1 throws poorly to 1B, where F3 catches the ball on the safety base well before the BR arrives. BU called the BR safe. I think that's an out, too. Errant throw exception, 8.2.N(5).

At this same tournament, several umpires had a WAY TOO LONG discussion on the topic of "hands are part of the bat".

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Out is the correct call.

14U Class C tournament this weekend: Strike 3 is uncaught, and bounces off of F2 and rolls in fair ground to F1. F1 throws poorly to 1B, where F3 catches the ball on the safety base well before the BR arrives. BU called the BR safe. I think that's an out, too. Errant throw exception, 8.2.N(5).

At this same tournament, several umpires had a WAY TOO LONG discussion on the topic of "hands are part of the bat".

"Class C"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Out is the correct call.

14U Class C tournament this weekend: Strike 3 is uncaught, and bounces off of F2 and rolls in fair ground to F1. F1 throws poorly to 1B, where F3 catches the ball on the safety base well before the BR arrives. BU called the BR safe. I think that's an out, too. Errant throw exception, 8.2.N(5).

One of the dumbest rule exceptions in the book

At this same tournament, several umpires had a WAY TOO LONG discussion on the topic of "hands are part of the bat".

Any, ANY discussion on this is too long. Apparently, the Class C tournament had some umpires who still need a lot of training, or at least some remedial reading comprehension

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

One of the dumbest rule exceptions in the book

Agree. I could never understand why the rules would allow the defense to catch a break when an infielder's wild throw to first base causes F3 to have to use the colored bag. I understand the theory behind it; they don't want F3 to cross into the BR's path to touch the white bag. But how often would something like that happen?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Agree. I could never understand why the rules would allow the defense to catch a break when an infielder's wild throw to first base causes F3 to have to use the colored bag. I understand the theory behind it; they don't want F3 to cross into the BR's path to touch the white bag. But how often would something like that happen?

It was changed by the present regime. When the double-base (or safety-base as it was called at that time) first hit the field, the interpretation was that the throw that took the defender into foul territory and away from the base, s/he could then use the colored portion. The key to the interp was that the "errant" throw (which ASA/USA still refuses to define) took the defender away from the base also removed them from the runner's path to be able to use the colored portion. The present regime takes the wording literally and considers simply moving into foul territory (which is where the colored base is located) give the defender the right to use that base even though it places both runner and defender in jeopardy of physical injury. The interpretation completely contradicts the purpose of the rule.

[CecilOne]

I did have to teach a coach about hands vs. bat again this weekend. Batter HBP in the hand.
DC came out to question that aren't the "hands part of the bat". [B]

He also then asked that if on a swing the ball hit the hand (actually hand hit the ball) it would then be a HBP.
After I explained, he finally realized that it would then be a strike.

[CecilOne]

Also, AGAIN , it is not obstruction if the fielder has the ball before blocking the base.

AGAIN, it is not obstruction if the runner is not hindered, even if the fielder is just enjoying the scenery.


I guess that's all for this week.

[Mountaincoach]

Was playing a 12U tournament 2 weekends ago. NFHS rules with "licensed" officials. Field umpire in position C. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Batter hits a hard ground ball that bounced off the umpire's right leg who was literally standing in the grass. My left fielder adjusted, fielded the ball, and held the runners at 1st and 2nd. The runner on 3rd scored. Field umpire immediately called dead ball and awarded the batter 2nd base. In unison, both myself (DC) and the OC said "YOU ARE PART OF THE FIELD". PU fixed it.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I did have to teach a coach about hands vs. bat again this weekend. Batter HBP in the hand.
DC came out to question that aren't the "hands part of the bat". [B]

He also then asked that if on a swing the ball hit the hand (actually hand hit the ball) it would then be a HBP.
After I explained, he finally realized that it would then be a strike.

The best answer I've seen to the hands are part of the bat was an umpire who told the coach to get a bat. "Do you see any hands that are part of this bat?. No. Then the hands are not part of the bat."

[Stat-Man]

I umpired my first season of softball this year. In what turned out to be my last game date, I called a dead ball strike when the batter swung and got hit by the pitch. With a 1-2 count, it was also strike 3, so I called her out, despite the coach's insistence she needed to go to first base. Finally, he asked if the hands were part of the bat.

Me (thinking): Only if her hands drop with the bat.
Me (answering coach): "No, they aren't."

[Mountaincoach]

Good for you in standing your ground. Why is there such a delusion about hands and a bat? Did the President of the United States say that in a speech decades ago? The myths of baseball and softball rules amaze me sometimes. Another one that amazes me is the belief that a batter cannot switch sides of the plate during an at-bat. I've seen coaches and parents behind the screen almost lose their mind over that one.

[Tru_in_Blu]

We learned a new rule this weekend.

A runner was caught in a rundown between third and home. With a head-first slide she was safe at home.

Defensive coach claimed that the runner was out because she was not allowed to slide head first. And she knew it was true because one of her runners was called out for that same offense in a tournament 2 weeks ago. AND, she knew she had see it in writing.

We continued on with the game after the PU gave her 3 minutes to find the reference in the rules book.

She never did find that reference.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Defensive coach claimed that the runner was out because she was not allowed to slide head first. And she knew it was true because one of her runners was called out for that same offense in a tournament 2 weeks ago. AND, she knew she had see it in writing.

In all fairness, I've heard umpires cite goofy, yet non-existent, rules regarding sliding. Here are two separate instances from my pre-officiating days

Story #1: In the nightcap of a JV doubleheader, the umpire called a girl out for not sliding into home with a play at the plate . In the subsequent half-inning, the same play happened, but when the coach asked why she wasn't called out, he said something to the effect there was no such rule .

Story #2: In a different season, the JV team was on defense and retired the batter-runner at first for the third out of the inning. During the time between innings, the umpire tells our coach, "She would have been been out anyways for sliding into first" (the BR had slid into first in her attempt to beat the throw).

[CecilOne]

Two from this weekend, USA SB (or any I know):

A) bases loaded, R2 interferes with F6. R2 out, R1 stays at 3rd, R3 to 2nd, BR awarded 1st. Easy, except the OC insisted R1 should score on a "bases loaded exception".
OK, anyone have a book that says that?

B) R1 on 1st, ball 4 goes out of play. R1 to 2nd, BR to 1st.
OC insists that R1 gets 3rd on the dead ball pitch because she would get 2nd on the walk. Easy, two separate actions and rules, except coach prolongs the discussion and my partner was not sure.

Again, not questions, just highlighting needs for instructing coaches.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Two from this weekend, USA SB (or any I know):

A) bases loaded, R2 interferes with F6. R2 out, R1 stays at 3rd, R3 to 2nd, BR awarded 1st. Easy, except the OC insisted R1 should score on a "bases loaded exception".
OK, anyone have a book that says that?

B) R1 on 1st, ball 4 goes out of play. R1 to 2nd, BR to 1st.
OC insists that R1 gets 3rd on the dead ball pitch because she would get 2nd on the walk. Easy, two separate actions and rules, except coach prolongs the discussion and my partner was not sure.

Again, not questions, just highlighting needs for instructing coaches.

Same OC?