Miscellaneous Rules

[josephrt1]

"Unlike in baseball, obstructed runners are not awarded bases if they do not attempt to advance after the OBS."

Not sure how to interpret your statement. the double negatives are confusing me as to the meaning of your comment.

If a girl would have made 2nd base but was knocked on her butt at 1st base because the 1st baseman was in her way and finally gets up and stays at 1st base, do you say you would not award her 2nd base? I don't see where an attempt is required. An example is that by the time she got back on her feet, if the ball was sitting at 2nd base, she's probably not going to go. But if it was an obstruction that clearly prevented her from advancing and reaching 2nd safely, I would be awarding her 2nd. Would you not award her 2nd in this situation?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

"Unlike in baseball, obstructed runners are not awarded bases if they do not attempt to advance after the OBS."

Not sure how to interpret your statement. the double negatives are confusing me as to the meaning of your comment.

Runners are not automatically advanced when obstructed; judge the base the runner would have obtained w/o OBS.
In that other game, there is an automatic advance. His point is not to apply another game's rule in a softball game.

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Runners are not automatically advanced when obstructed; judge the base the runner would have obtained w/o OBS.
In that other game, there is an automatic advance. His point is not to apply another game's rule in a softball game.

Great, thanks. I did not know that other game makes an automatic base award. I think we are in agreement on dealing with obstruction in softball and even though I don't do college, i was aware of the award after warning in NCAA. Seen it happen as a spectator a couple of times.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

Great, thanks. I did not know that other game makes an automatic base award. I think we are in agreement on dealing with obstruction in softball and even though I don't do college, i was aware of the award after warning in NCAA. Seen it happen as a spectator a couple of times.

I didn't mean to blow up this thread with my comment, but in that other game, I think it's called "Type A". I could be wrong.

Regardless...I only added it to the thread because we had a wreck in a HS game at 1B, and my partner awarded bases. I tried to get him to fix it, but after he said "Sorry sir, I'd like to stick with my call", I let it go.

Let the coaches complain...(they didn't). "Sir" is reserved for coaches, assignors, and evaluators, not something to throw out on a partner during a discussion on the field....I hate to admit that we weren't much of an umpire team after that.

[CecilOne]

USA rules.

We all know that the double base rule only applies to a play at first from the fair side of the 1st base line. A coach asked whether the foul side exception applied when there is no throw. The book says "attempt", not throw; so yes it does.

The play: fair ball off F3 goes into foul ground, picked up by F3 in foul ground, who runs to 1st, beating the BR but touching only the foul side of the base.
BR called out.

Any disagreement or exception you know?

[RKBUmp]

I believe there is a case play of the exact situation. Any play that takes the fielder into foul ground they can use the safety base. About the only things the defense can't do with the safety base is field the ball in fair territory and then only step on the safety base or set up on the safety base for a throw from fair territory.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I believe there is a case play of the exact situation. Any play that takes the fielder into foul ground they can use the safety base. About the only things the defense can't do with the safety base is field the ball in fair territory and then only step on the safety base or set up on the safety base for a throw from fair territory.

Out is the correct call.

14U Class C tournament this weekend: Strike 3 is uncaught, and bounces off of F2 and rolls in fair ground to F1. F1 throws poorly to 1B, where F3 catches the ball on the safety base well before the BR arrives. BU called the BR safe. I think that's an out, too. Errant throw exception, 8.2.N(5).

At this same tournament, several umpires had a WAY TOO LONG discussion on the topic of "hands are part of the bat".

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

If a girl would have made 2nd base but was knocked on her butt at 1st base because the 1st baseman was in her way and finally gets up and stays at 1st base, do you say you would not award her 2nd base? I don't see where an attempt is required. An example is that by the time she got back on her feet, if the ball was sitting at 2nd base, she's probably not going to go. But if it was an obstruction that clearly prevented her from advancing and reaching 2nd safely, I would be awarding her 2nd. Would you not award her 2nd in this situation?

See the bolded phrases, IF you really judge she would have reached 2nd.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

If a girl would have made 2nd base but was knocked on her butt at 1st base because the 1st baseman was in her way and finally gets up and stays at 1st base, do you say you would not award her 2nd base? I don't see where an attempt is required. An example is that by the time she got back on her feet, if the ball was sitting at 2nd base, she's probably not going to go. But if it was an obstruction that clearly prevented her from advancing and reaching 2nd safely, I would be awarding her 2nd. Would you not award her 2nd in this situation?

In some codes of baseball, if the runner was obstructed between 1st and 2nd, and the umpire judged he would not have obtained 2nd base (say ... shortstop had the ball at the moment of obstruction by F3 near 1st), the ruling is still to award 2nd... this is not true in softball. There is a punitive part to the OBS ruling in some codes of baseball.

[Manny A]

Be careful on this obstruction discussion not being punitive in softball. It is in NCAA play when the fielder who obstructs has previously been warned for obstructing a runner rounding a base or returning to a base, or if she obstructs the runner's line of vision to the pitcher so that the runner cannot see when the pitch is released. In those situations, a subsequent violation by the same player will result in a one-base award.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Be careful on this obstruction discussion not being punitive in softball. It is in NCAA play when the fielder who obstructs has previously been warned for obstructing a runner rounding a base or returning to a base, or if she obstructs the runner's line of vision to the pitcher so that the runner cannot see when the pitch is released. In those situations, a subsequent violation by the same player will result in a one-base award.

Very true. NCAA only ... but still true.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Be careful on this obstruction discussion not being punitive in softball. It is in NCAA play when the fielder who obstructs has previously been warned for obstructing a runner rounding a base or returning to a base, or if she obstructs the runner's line of vision to the pitcher so that the runner cannot see when the pitch is released. In those situations, a subsequent violation by the same player will result in a one-base award.

Well, apparently the NCAA also allows infielders to get a free out by throwing at runners that don't go "poof" after being put out, so not going to weigh heavily on what they say