The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 11:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 5,962
Miscellaneous Rules

Miscellaneous Rules that recently needed correcting or teaching.

This is not a questions and answers topic.
My intent is to list little things for which some need reminders or clarification.

.................................................. .................................................. .......

1 – For a runner to be called out for being out of the base path, she must be avoiding an attempted tag.
2 – The running lane rule and the 3 foot out rule are two separate things.
3 – The running lane rule has exceptions,
- errant or foul ground throw and
- last step if a single base.
4 - A runner does not have to follow a displaced base, even if displaced before she arrived.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.

Last edited by CecilOne; Wed Jul 05, 2017 at 01:14pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 12:32pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,138
It's not interference if the batter strikes out on an uncaught third strike, and then runs to first when she is not allowed to (first base occupied with less than two outs) and draws a throw from the catcher.

A fair batted ball that hits the top of the fence in flight and then bounces over is a home run.

Dirt is not a foreign substance.

The offense cannot ask for a checked swing appeal after the plate umpire rules that the batter offered for a strike.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 01:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,194
No rule about players standing in dugout openings.

No rule requiring on deck circles to be 45' from home plate.

No rule stating a coach on offense cannot make more than 1 substitution at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 10:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 559
Runners may advance with liability to be put out when a fly ball is first touched, rather than caught.

Unlike in baseball, obstructed runners are not awarded bases if they do not attempt to advance after the OBS.
__________________
Powder blue since 1998. Longtime forum lurker.
Umpiring Goals: NCAA D1 postseason/ISF Certification/Nat'l Indicator Fraternity
2016 Game Counts -- Travel Ball: 57 | Juco: 32 | HS: 14 | NAIA: 10 | NCAA: 5 | NCAA Fall Ball: 12 | Camp: 5 | Three-man: 30 | EJ's: 1

2017 Game Counts -- Travel Ball: 37 | Juco: 39 | HS: 18 | NCAA: 2 | Fall Ball: 16 | Camp: 4 | Three-man: 31 | EJ's: 1

Last edited by teebob21; Mon Apr 10, 2017 at 10:54pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 93
"Unlike in baseball, obstructed runners are not awarded bases if they do not attempt to advance after the OBS."

Not sure how to interpret your statement. the double negatives are confusing me as to the meaning of your comment.

If a girl would have made 2nd base but was knocked on her butt at 1st base because the 1st baseman was in her way and finally gets up and stays at 1st base, do you say you would not award her 2nd base? I don't see where an attempt is required. An example is that by the time she got back on her feet, if the ball was sitting at 2nd base, she's probably not going to go. But if it was an obstruction that clearly prevented her from advancing and reaching 2nd safely, I would be awarding her 2nd. Would you not award her 2nd in this situation?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 5,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephrt1 View Post
"Unlike in baseball, obstructed runners are not awarded bases if they do not attempt to advance after the OBS."

Not sure how to interpret your statement. the double negatives are confusing me as to the meaning of your comment.
Runners are not automatically advanced when obstructed; judge the base the runner would have obtained w/o OBS.
In that other game, there is an automatic advance. His point is not to apply another game's rule in a softball game.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:42am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 5,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephrt1 View Post
If a girl would have made 2nd base but was knocked on her butt at 1st base because the 1st baseman was in her way and finally gets up and stays at 1st base, do you say you would not award her 2nd base? I don't see where an attempt is required. An example is that by the time she got back on her feet, if the ball was sitting at 2nd base, she's probably not going to go. But if it was an obstruction that clearly prevented her from advancing and reaching 2nd safely, I would be awarding her 2nd. Would you not award her 2nd in this situation?
See the bolded phrases, IF you really judge she would have reached 2nd.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:54am
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephrt1 View Post
If a girl would have made 2nd base but was knocked on her butt at 1st base because the 1st baseman was in her way and finally gets up and stays at 1st base, do you say you would not award her 2nd base? I don't see where an attempt is required. An example is that by the time she got back on her feet, if the ball was sitting at 2nd base, she's probably not going to go. But if it was an obstruction that clearly prevented her from advancing and reaching 2nd safely, I would be awarding her 2nd. Would you not award her 2nd in this situation?
In some codes of baseball, if the runner was obstructed between 1st and 2nd, and the umpire judged he would not have obtained 2nd base (say ... shortstop had the ball at the moment of obstruction by F3 near 1st), the ruling is still to award 2nd... this is not true in softball. There is a punitive part to the OBS ruling in some codes of baseball.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 08:30am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,138
Be careful on this obstruction discussion not being punitive in softball. It is in NCAA play when the fielder who obstructs has previously been warned for obstructing a runner rounding a base or returning to a base, or if she obstructs the runner's line of vision to the pitcher so that the runner cannot see when the pitch is released. In those situations, a subsequent violation by the same player will result in a one-base award.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 08:37am
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Be careful on this obstruction discussion not being punitive in softball. It is in NCAA play when the fielder who obstructs has previously been warned for obstructing a runner rounding a base or returning to a base, or if she obstructs the runner's line of vision to the pitcher so that the runner cannot see when the pitch is released. In those situations, a subsequent violation by the same player will result in a one-base award.
Very true. NCAA only ... but still true.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Be careful on this obstruction discussion not being punitive in softball. It is in NCAA play when the fielder who obstructs has previously been warned for obstructing a runner rounding a base or returning to a base, or if she obstructs the runner's line of vision to the pitcher so that the runner cannot see when the pitch is released. In those situations, a subsequent violation by the same player will result in a one-base award.
Well, apparently the NCAA also allows infielders to get a free out by throwing at runners that don't go "poof" after being put out, so not going to weigh heavily on what they say
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Runners are not automatically advanced when obstructed; judge the base the runner would have obtained w/o OBS.
In that other game, there is an automatic advance. His point is not to apply another game's rule in a softball game.
Great, thanks. I did not know that other game makes an automatic base award. I think we are in agreement on dealing with obstruction in softball and even though I don't do college, i was aware of the award after warning in NCAA. Seen it happen as a spectator a couple of times.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 12, 2017, 02:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephrt1 View Post
Great, thanks. I did not know that other game makes an automatic base award. I think we are in agreement on dealing with obstruction in softball and even though I don't do college, i was aware of the award after warning in NCAA. Seen it happen as a spectator a couple of times.
I didn't mean to blow up this thread with my comment, but in that other game, I think it's called "Type A". I could be wrong.

Regardless...I only added it to the thread because we had a wreck in a HS game at 1B, and my partner awarded bases. I tried to get him to fix it, but after he said "Sorry sir, I'd like to stick with my call", I let it go.

Let the coaches complain...(they didn't). "Sir" is reserved for coaches, assignors, and evaluators, not something to throw out on a partner during a discussion on the field....I hate to admit that we weren't much of an umpire team after that.
__________________
Powder blue since 1998. Longtime forum lurker.
Umpiring Goals: NCAA D1 postseason/ISF Certification/Nat'l Indicator Fraternity
2016 Game Counts -- Travel Ball: 57 | Juco: 32 | HS: 14 | NAIA: 10 | NCAA: 5 | NCAA Fall Ball: 12 | Camp: 5 | Three-man: 30 | EJ's: 1

2017 Game Counts -- Travel Ball: 37 | Juco: 39 | HS: 18 | NCAA: 2 | Fall Ball: 16 | Camp: 4 | Three-man: 31 | EJ's: 1

Last edited by teebob21; Wed Apr 12, 2017 at 02:29am.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 04:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 5,962
double base rule

USA rules.

We all know that the double base rule only applies to a play at first from the fair side of the 1st base line. A coach asked whether the foul side exception applied when there is no throw. The book says "attempt", not throw; so yes it does.

The play: fair ball off F3 goes into foul ground, picked up by F3 in foul ground, who runs to 1st, beating the BR but touching only the foul side of the base.
BR called out.

Any disagreement or exception you know?
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 05:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,194
I believe there is a case play of the exact situation. Any play that takes the fielder into foul ground they can use the safety base. About the only things the defense can't do with the safety base is field the ball in fair territory and then only step on the safety base or set up on the safety base for a throw from fair territory.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
miscellaneous rules CecilOne Softball 27 Mon May 16, 2016 01:05pm
When a defender fails to conform to guarding rules, do you apply screening rules? MiamiWadeCounty Basketball 3 Fri Dec 02, 2011 09:55pm
ASA Rules Approved by Playing Rules Committee IRISHMAFIA Softball 2 Wed Nov 09, 2011 03:18pm
NFHS Rules Interpreters versus IAABO Rules Interpreters dpicard Basketball 7 Mon Dec 07, 2009 01:13pm
Miscellaneous Questions BlitzkriegBob Volleyball 5 Fri Aug 25, 2006 07:25am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:38pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1