miscellaneous rules

[CecilOne]

Where is the NFHS rule cite for the pitcher having to pitch to at least one batter?

[RKBUmp]

8-9-2, if a courtesy runner was used in top of first inning.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

8-9-2, if a courtesy runner was used in top of first inning.

Agreed: per a strict interpretation of the rule (8-9-2), the players on the home-team lineup listed as pitcher and catcher must play the position for at least one pitch, unless injured or disqualified. I'm not even sure if a courtesy runner would be required....the book says that they have to face at least the first batter (one pitch).

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Agreed: per a strict interpretation of the rule (8-9-2), the players on the home-team lineup listed as pitcher and catcher must play the position for at least one pitch, unless injured or disqualified. I'm not even sure if a courtesy runner would be required....the book says that they have to face at least the first batter (one pitch).

The rule is under the courtesy runner section, the pitcher and catcher would only be required to face the first batter if they used a courtesy runner in the top half of the inning.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Agreed: per a strict interpretation of the rule (8-9-2), the players on the home-team lineup listed as pitcher and catcher must play the position for at least one pitch, unless injured or disqualified. I'm not even sure if a courtesy runner would be required....the book says that they have to face at least the first batter (one pitch).

What about other books, ASA, etc.?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What about other books, ASA, etc.?

ASA - Whomever is listed as F1 or F2 gets a CR in top of 1st; anyone can play F1 or F2 in bottom of first. A "loophole" that ASA hasn't (or doesn't care) to address.

NCAA - moot, as there are no CR's.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The rule is under the courtesy runner section, the pitcher and catcher would only be required to face the first batter if they used a courtesy runner in the top half of the inning.

Another implied idea that is not stated in absolute terms. That wording not being in the substitutes or pitching rule, and not present pre-CR seems to mean it only applies if a CR applies.

OR, as it applies to any CR possible game and it says both positions must face a batter on defense; that is really a stretch for the rule to assume CR's for both positions. Both applicable cases in 2016 specifically describe CR usage; which implies the rule only is in effect if a CR was used.

Do you know any prior cases or interps which clarify this?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

ASA - Whomever is listed as F1 or F2 gets a CR in top of 1st; anyone can play F1 or F2 in bottom of first. A "loophole" that ASA hasn't (or doesn't care) to address.

Which means in ASA there is no one pitch/batter requirement for those initially listed.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

ASA - Whomever is listed as F1 or F2 gets a CR in top of 1st; anyone can play F1 or F2 in bottom of first. A "loophole" that ASA hasn't (or doesn't care) to address.

NCAA - moot, as there are no CR's.

My NCAA Softball Rules Books go only as far back as the 2000-01 season, and there CR does not exist as far as back as the 2000-01. When did the NCAA remove the CR from its Softball Rules or did it never have a CR rule?

MTD, Sr.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

My NCAA Softball Rules Books go only as far back as the 2000-01 season, and there CR does not exist as far as back as the 2000-01. When did the NCAA remove the CR from its Softball Rules or did it never have a CR rule?

MTD, Sr.

My first book was 1999 and did not contain CR's.

The earliest version of the NCAA rule book is somewhere around 1997. Prior to the NCAA book, they used the ASA book with some modifications, which were listed on one page (I remember noticing the modifications in 1995). Not sure if ASA allowed CR's then or if NCAA disallowed CR.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Which means in ASA there is no one pitch/batter requirement for those initially listed.

Correct.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

My first book was 1999 and did not contain CR's.

The earliest version of the NCAA rule book is somewhere around 1997. Prior to the NCAA book, they used the ASA book with some modifications, which were listed on one page (I remember noticing the modifications in 1995). Not sure if ASA allowed CR's then or if NCAA disallowed CR.

I think CR started in 2004, at least for NFHS.

[AtlUmpSteve]

NCAA has never allowed a courtesy runner.

I seem to recall a case play ruling in ASA from KR attempting to mirror the NFHS application without direct rules support. Don't have time to research it, though.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Agreed: per a strict interpretation of the rule (8-9-2), the players on the home-team lineup listed as pitcher and catcher must play the position for at least one pitch, unless injured or disqualified. I'm not even sure if a courtesy runner would be required....the book says that they have to face at least the first batter (one pitch).

On the NFHS test, this is false, based on 8-9-2

"A pitcher is required to pitch until the first batter facing her has completed her turn at bat or the side has been retired."

[RKBUmp]

Rule 8-9-2 says specifically in it, must face the first batter on defense (one pitch)