Illegal Pitch Procedure

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Im going to let this one go, but you're telling me that the guy who interprets the rules for USSSA in my state and has been a part of the writing process at the national level for years doesn't know what he's talking about?

Honestly, it wouldn't be the first time that has happened in my experience. These "qualified rules interpreters" have been known to miss one every now and then.

Go ahead and ask him what happens when a pitcher licks her fingers as she's looking at the catcher for the signal, then brings her hands together without wiping her fingers, then when the PU calls and signals an Illegal Pitch, she steps off the plate backwards with either foot.

[BretMan]

Or how about this one...

Pitcher steps on plate with hands already joined. We are supposed to call an illegal pitch immediately, when it happens.

So, we call/signal the illegal pitch, then the pitcher steps back.

What is the mechanic for "uncalling" the illegal pitch???

[Little Jimmy]

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in".
Michael Corleone

I said I was done. But I've changed my mind. Once again, I agree with anyone who says that we have always called illegal the moment it's illegal. That's the way I've always approached it. But when told to do it differently for one particular organization (USSSA) I take the good soldier route. But it does make me think about a few things...
What if,indeed, the powers that be wanted to allow this particular pitch infraction to have the potential to be nullified? How would that exception be any different than any of the other exceptions that appear in the multitude of books we adhere to? I think it's a matter of poor semantics and the overall sub standard structure of the Utrip rule book. All rule books have quirks, Utrip has a lot. And I state this with the certainty that the umpires I work with doing this brand of ball are the best in my area. It's not the people, it's the book.
The UIC who told us this is knowledgeable and not one to make statements that he is not sure of. I do feel the need to defend him. So when I work my local Utrip tourneys I'll be following this procedure. When I work Fed I'll do it differently.
By the way, some of you guys work USSSA in your area. Ask your local UICs and see what they say. I'm curious.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

What if,indeed, the powers that be wanted to allow this particular pitch infraction to have the potential to be nullified? How would that exception be any different than any of the other exceptions that appear in the multitude of books we adhere to?

It would have to appear in Rule 6, Section 3 of the book under "Illegal Pitch". There would have to be something in that section, likely under "A. Effect" that says something like, "The pitch is declared a ball and base runners are awarded one base without liability to be put out. Exception: If after the illegal pitch is declared, the pitcher removes herself from the pitching position per Rule 6, Section 1.D Note, then the infraction is nullified."

Also, take a look at Rule 10, Section 1.O. It says when a pitcher commits an Illegal Pitch, but no pitch is delivered to the batter, you have an Immediate Dead Ball. So a pitcher steps on the plate with both hands together, and the umpire calls an IP, whereupon she steps off the plate. Now we call a dead ball. Why? If there is no infraction as your UIC states, why bother killing play if there's nothing to do at that point since the IP is nullified? I don't believe USSSA feels that that's the case. I think, like in every other softball organization out there, that the IP violation is still there, and the umpire administers the penalty.

[Little Jimmy]

"So a pitcher steps on the plate with both hands together, and the umpire calls an IP, whereupon she steps off the plate. Now we call a dead ball. Why? If there is no infraction as your UIC states, why bother killing play if there's nothing to do at that point since the IP is nullified?"

The USSSA mechanic would be to not call the IP until the hands separate to pitch. If the hands separate, then the IP is called.


" I don't believe USSSA feels that that's the case. I think, like in every other softball organization out there, that the IP violation is still there, and the umpire administers the penalty."

My state UIC was on the national rules committee. They write the rules. If I can't take his word for it, who would have better insight?
__________________

[RKBUmp]

Cut and paste from the 2016 USSSA case book

SITUATION F: F1 is (a) behind the pitcher’s plate, takes a signal from F2 and then steps on the pitcher’s
plate immediately bringing the hands together; (b) on the pitcher’s plate, looks to her coach in the dugout
for a signal and then simulates taking a signal from F2 before bringing the hands together; or (c) behind the
pitcher’s plate, takes a signal from the coach or F2, steps on the pitcher’s plate, simulates taking a signal
from F2 before bringing the hands together.
RULING: Illegal pitch in (a) – pitcher must pause, re-take or simulate taking sign; legal in (b) and (c). (6-
1-C)

And a cut and paste directly from the 2016 USSA rule book

Sec 3 ILLEGAL PITCH
An illegal pitch is a pitching rules violation. An illegal pitch is called
immediately. It is a delayed dead ball and should be signaled by the Umpire
calling the illegal pitch and verbalized so a player could hear the call. Failure
of players to hear the call shall not void the call.

What your UIC and national rules committe member is telling you is in direct conflict to both the rule book and the case book for USSSA.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

"So a pitcher steps on the plate with both hands together, and the umpire calls an IP, whereupon she steps off the plate. Now we call a dead ball. Why? If there is no infraction as your UIC states, why bother killing play if there's nothing to do at that point since the IP is nullified?"

The USSSA mechanic would be to not call the IP until the hands separate to pitch. If the hands separate, then the IP is called.

With all due respect, that doesn't make sense at all. You are supposed to call/signal an IP the moment the violation happens, by rule. In this case, the violation happens when she steps on the plate with her hands together, not when she separates them afterward.

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

" I don't believe USSSA feels that that's the case. I think, like in every other softball organization out there, that the IP violation is still there, and the umpire administers the penalty."

My state UIC was on the national rules committee. They write the rules. If I can't take his word for it, who would have better insight?
__________________

Again, I'm not trying to belittle your state UIC, but I've run across a few times where umpires at those positions aren't always correct. I've even experienced at national camps and clinics where two instructors would not agree on a particular ruling. They're human, it happens.

But if he IS correct, and that's how USSSA Softball wants to treat this, then he needs to make it happen by changing the IP rule in the rule book and case book. As written, USSSA is the same as virtually every other fast-pitch organization out there, and they would need to change the books to clearly show how they are 180 degrees different.

[CecilOne]

"Called Immediately" does NOT mean dead ball immediately.

IP is a DDB to allow the batter (or maybe the coach) the choice of outcome.

[Little Jimmy]

RKBU ump...I agree wholeheartedly that the information given to me does not match what's stated in the case book. No question.

Manny...Also no question that if this indeed is what's wanted, then the rulebook needs to be changed to clearly reflect this. If there is to be an exception then the word EXCEPTION needs to be written into the rulebook.

I've tried to do what's right for every organization I've ever worked for. That's all that's happening here.

I think I need to get out on the field and get this season started. Today's and tomorrow's games cancelled because of field conditions. I'm shooting for Thursday.

[MD Longhorn]

There seems to be some confusion that one cannot have an illegal pitch without an actual pitch. This is not true. If they IP, and then step off, the ball is dead and we administer the IP. You're making it harder than it is.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

1 There seems to be some confusion that one cannot have an illegal pitch without an actual pitch.
2 This is not true.
3 If they IP, and then step off, the ball is dead and we administer the IP.
4 You're making it harder than it is.

Exactly. All 4.