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-   -   Illegal Pitch Procedure (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/102425-illegal-pitch-procedure.html)

teebob21 Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:40pm
Illegal Pitch Procedure
 
So, this is a basic question, but I want to make sure I'm doing this right. Both NFHS and NCAA are emphasizing the pause or simulation of taking signs on the pitching plate with the hands together apart, so I'm watching closer for it, and as a result, calling more IPs as PU this year.

(NFHS) Sitch: R2 and R3, outs irrelevant. F1 takes the signal off the pitching plate, steps on with one foot, and immediately brings her hands together. I call IP and signal. The pitcher hesitates, because she knows I've called it, and then finally throws one right down the middle. The batter does not swing.

I call the strike with a verbal and a signal, and then announce Dead Ball and administer the IP. This is the correct mechanic, yes? Both coaches (again, its HS) were confused why I called a strike if the pitch was illegal. They were confused yet again when I announced the count as 2-0 for the next pitch. :confused:

Umpire@1 Sat Mar 18, 2017 05:01pm
So what did the pitcher do wrong? She took a signal, stepped on the rubber, hesitated and made a pitch?? Am I missing something?

RKBUmp Sat Mar 18, 2017 05:45pm
He said she stepped on and immediately brought her hands together. Must pause after engaging the pitching plate with hands separated and at least simulate taking a signal.

robbie Sat Mar 18, 2017 05:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umpire@1 (Post 1002793)
So what did the pitcher do wrong? She took a signal, stepped on the rubber, hesitated and made a pitch?? Am I missing something?
I assume the OP is referencing the fact that the hesitation was AFTER the hands came together. Although that in itself is not a violation, the fact that there was no pause prior to hands together while on the pitching plate is one.

AtlUmpSteve Sat Mar 18, 2017 08:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1002772)
So, this is a basic question, but I want to make sure I'm doing this right. Both NFHS and NCAA are emphasizing the pause or simulation of taking signs on the pitching plate with the hands together, so I'm watching closer for it, and as a result, calling more IPs as PU this year.

(NFHS) Sitch: R2 and R3, outs irrelevant. F1 takes the signal off the pitching plate, steps on with one foot, and immediately brings her hands together. I call IP and signal. The pitcher hesitates, because she knows I've called it, and then finally throws one right down the middle. The batter does not swing.

I call the strike with a verbal and a signal, and then announce Dead Ball and administer the IP. This is the correct mechanic, yes? Both coaches (again, its HS) were confused why I called a strike if the pitch was illegal. They were confused yet again when I announced the count as 2-0 for the next pitch. :confused:
Mechanics, yes, you are correct; except you skipped mentioning the part of giving the offensive coach the option between the illegal pitch enforcement or the result of the play. And I believe that is key to the understanding.

It is my experience that stepping out after the pitch and grandly announcing "Coach, we have an illegal pitch called; you have the option to choose between result of the pitch, a strike on the batter or the penalty for the illegal pitch, a ball on the batter and every runner advances a base" pretty much explains to everyone why the obvious result.

After the following action, announcing "the count, as result of the option, is NOW 2 balls, no strikes", and parents, as well as high school coaches, can follow that result, typically.

Little Jimmy Sat Mar 18, 2017 08:39pm
Although I've called and signaled the illegal pitch in the same way as tee bob 21 did, I've been told differently this preseason. One of my powers that be said the pitcher can still discontinue the pitch before the hands separate by stepping back off the plate. Fed 6-1-1-f-2 seems to verify. So I've been told proper mechanics in that situation would be to wait until the hands separate before signaling illegal. Thoughts?

RKBUmp Sat Mar 18, 2017 09:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Jimmy (Post 1002807)
Although I've called and signaled the illegal pitch in the same way as tee bob 21 did, I've been told differently this preseason. One of my powers that be said the pitcher can still discontinue the pitch before the hands separate by stepping back off the plate. Fed 6-1-1-f-2 seems to verify. So I've been told proper mechanics in that situation would be to wait until the hands separate before signaling illegal. Thoughts?
6-1-1-f-2 allows the pitcher to disengage assuming she has done nothing illegal. Once the pitcher commits an illegal action, the bell has been rung and cannot be unrung.

Stepping on and immediately bringing the hands together is a point of emphasis in NFHS this year and was featured in the preseason handout. Nowhere in the information does it say anything about the pitcher being able to reset after they have committed an illegal action.

I would also refer you to case play 6-1-1 Situation E, play A. It is an illegal pitch, case play gives no option for the pitcher to reset without penalty.

Little Jimmy Sat Mar 18, 2017 09:15pm
Understand about the emphasis and like that it's being pushed. I'm just passing on what I've been told and opening it up for discussion. I will say that having Fed 6-1-1 a through e being followed immediately by f (describing how the pitcher may legally remove herself) is at the least questionable rule structure on the Feds behalf. I can see how it could be interpreted in different ways.

Little Jimmy Sat Mar 18, 2017 09:24pm
And...after looking a little closer...and noting that the UIC that discussed this with me is USSSA... USSSA 6-1-D-note says " before the pitch starts, the pitcher may remove them self from the pitching position by stepping back from the pitchers plate with both feet(either foot may be removed first) or by requesting time". Since the pitch begins when the hands separate, Utrip seems to be allowing for the nullification of the potential illegal pitch described in the original post.

RKBUmp Sat Mar 18, 2017 09:40pm
Sorry, but no rule set has any option to erase an illegal pitch. Once the pitcher commits an illegal act, the pitch is illegal, there is no fixing it.

The part about removing themselves from the pitching plate only deals with if they have not done anything illegal as yet. Remember, once a pitcher brings the hands together they must deliver a pitch, unless they legally remove themselves prior to the hands separating.

Little Jimmy Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:10pm
RKBUmp said..."Sorry, but no rule set has any option to erase an illegal pitch. Once the pitcher commits an illegal act, the pitch is illegal, there is no fixing it."

Well, when my state UIC (who has also been a member of the national rules committee) tells me that's the interpretation...then that's the interpretation. At least USSSA wise. Apparently they are adhering to the pitch beginning when the hands separate, even in this case.

RKBUmp Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:14pm
It has absolutely nothing to do with when the pitch starts. The pitcher can commit an illegal act before the pitch ever starts, such as stepping on with hands together, immediately bringing hands together after stepping on, licking fingers and going straight to ball, rubbing dirt on the ball, grinding ball in dirt etc. All illegal acts immediately when they happen. There is no recourse to correct an illegal act once it has been committed. Your UIC is incorrect and he will not be able to show you any case play, clarification or rule support to back his position. Nothing in any rule set give the pitcher the ability to correct an illegal pitch.

Little Jimmy Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:24pm
Im going to let this one go, but you're telling me that the guy who interprets the rules for USSSA in my state and has been a part of the writing process at the national level for years doesn't know what he's talking about? And even though a national rules committee member(up until this year) says to do it I should simply tell him he's wrong?

I understand what you're saying. But you're not understanding what I'm saying. Time to move on.

teebob21 Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 1002806)
Mechanics, yes, you are correct; except you skipped mentioning the part of giving the offensive coach the option between the illegal pitch enforcement or the result of the play. And I believe that is key to the understanding.

(snip)
Steve, in NFHS, my understanding is that if the ball is not batted, there is no option. We simply give the batter a ball and advance any runners. (6-1-1 Penalty) Does Exception #2 come into play every time if the batter does not swing? NCAA: Yes; option every time.

Edit: Also, I am stealing your pre-packaged IP verbiage and using it. Thank you.

AtlUmpSteve Sun Mar 19, 2017 09:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1002826)
Steve, in NFHS, my understanding is that if the ball is not batted, there is no option. We simply give the batter a ball and advance any runners. (6-1-1 Penalty) Does Exception #2 come into play every time if the batter does not swing? NCAA: Yes; option every time.

Edit: Also, I am stealing your pre-packaged IP verbiage and using it. Thank you.
The rule and exceptions don't say anything about a swing or ball batted; exception #2 says anytime the advancement of batter and all runners doesn't occur the coach has an option. In my view the option is stated anytime #2 DOESN'T apply (all advance and remove the option), or another exception applies.


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