ASA Ethics and Plicies (?)

[3afan]

I have a friend who works for an ASA group about 15 miles from her home. She's worked for them for 15 yrs - very successfully I might add. She lives 2 miles from one of the nicest softball complexes in the area, its a VTD league. This fall she decided to call one night a week at the local complex for a new UIC who is trying hard to do things the right way, unlike the former UIC he replaced. When she inquired why she was not assigned any games next week by the ASA league, she was told it was because she was calling one night per week for the VTD league. She was told her decision violated ASA "ethics and policies" and that her behavior was inappropriate.

I agree that (1) you never give up one assignment for another and (2) you service your own ASA group before other ASAs. But ASAs do not "own" their registered umpires. Would she get the same reaction if he did JUCO fall ball once a week? Who knows .....

Thoughts / Opinions please ...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by 3afan

I have a friend who works for an ASA group about 15 miles from her home. She's worked for them for 15 yrs - very successfully I might add. She lives 2 miles from one of the nicest softball complexes in the area, its a VTD league. This fall she decided to call one night a week at the local complex for a new UIC who is trying hard to do things the right way, unlike the former UIC he replaced. When she inquired why she was not assigned any games next week by the ASA league, she was told it was because she was calling one night per week for the VTD league. She was told her decision violated ASA "ethics and policies" and that her behavior was inappropriate.

I agree that (1) you never give up one assignment for another and (2) you service your own ASA group before other ASAs. But ASAs do not "own" their registered umpires. Would she get the same reaction if he did JUCO fall ball once a week? Who knows .....

Thoughts / Opinions please ...

Well, that has nothing to do with ASA and is most likely the scheme of a local assignor or group. If it isn't in writing and a known policy at the time your friend joined the group, it is bullshit. OTOH, I can understand circumstances where this could be a policy.

I have seen this more as a recruiting tool used by other alphabets in trying to dissuade potential umpires from working ASA.

[AtlUmpSteve]

To add my perspective;

I agree with ^^^^. It's a decision each assignor/coordinator needs to make to gain, improve, and/or keep staff. Not all "ball" is the same, and plays into it as well. And the concept of "loyalty" plays into it as well, and not everyone sees things the same way.

I have, over the years, needed to discourage umpires from working certain "ball", because I considered it detrimental to their development as umpires. Yes, independent contractors are free to accept whatever they wish; at the same time, assignors are free to assign or not assign by whatever standards they wish to apply.

Personally, I would let someone know up front what they might be doing that might affect future scheduling. Working BETTER ball; not a problem. Working junk ball that helps foster bad habits; yes, have said so, and have dealt with accordingly.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by 3afan

I have a friend who works for an ASA group about 15 miles from her home. She's worked for them for 15 yrs - very successfully I might add. She lives 2 miles from one of the nicest softball complexes in the area, its a VTD league. This fall she decided to call one night a week at the local complex for a new UIC who is trying hard to do things the right way, unlike the former UIC he replaced. When she inquired why she was not assigned any games next week by the ASA league, she was told it was because she was calling one night per week for the VTD league. She was told her decision violated ASA "ethics and policies" and that her behavior was inappropriate.

I agree that (1) you never give up one assignment for another and (2) you service your own ASA group before other ASAs. But ASAs do not "own" their registered umpires. Would she get the same reaction if he did JUCO fall ball once a week? Who knows .....

Thoughts / Opinions please ...

What is VTD?

MTD, Sr.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

What is VTD?

MTD, Sr.

"Virtual Tournament Director"

They were a small programming company (only handful of employees) which developed the predecessor to ASA's tournament and registration pages. When ASA took everything in-house, they got pissed off and started running their own tournaments (mostly in TX, I believe) to compete against ASA. To the best of my knowledge, still pretty small and local, if you can call anything in TX "local".

[teebob21]

So I'll chime in with a non sequitur. I work (or have worked) for a bunch of different alphabet-soup organizations here in AZ. Basically everything except U-Trip. As an umpire, I treat them all basically the same but I can't speak for the umpire assignors. The first assignment I accept is the one I am doing that day...there are a few exceptions, such as when a higher-level college assignor wants to give me games on a date I've accepted low-level college games.

I get it that there is, for whatever reason, some ASA hate here. I don't pretend to understand it as so many of us started as ASA umpires. I owe ASA for nearly everything I have become as an umpire. Now, ASA has a set of mechanics that have been developed to be "workable" by umpires of all levels for games of all levels. Is it perfect? No. I understand that ASA mechanics can be silly and restrictive given higher levels of play, but when we, as independent contractors choose to work for a given organization, we work for the letters on our shirt whether we like their mechanics and/or rules or not. Additionally, some people have bad history with other people so there is some politics involved, but I don't, and won't, participate in that.

That said, and I haven't had to do this yet, I would not be willing to work again for an organization that did not assign me games when I was available simply because I sometimes worked for some other organization. The exception to this would be if I were on ASA (or other orgs) staff. We work for the betterment of ourselves and the betterment of the game. ...And our big-bucks $30 game fee.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

So I'll chime in with a non sequitur. I work (or have worked) for a bunch of different alphabet-soup organizations here in AZ. Basically everything except U-Trip. As an umpire, I treat them all basically the same but I can't speak for the umpire assignors. The first assignment I accept is the one I am doing that day...there are a few exceptions, such as when a higher-level college assignor wants to give me games on a date I've accepted low-level college games.

I get it that there is, for whatever reason, some ASA hate here. I don't pretend to understand it as so many of us started as ASA umpires. I owe ASA for nearly everything I have become as an umpire. Now, ASA has a set of mechanics that have been developed to be "workable" by umpires of all levels for games of all levels. Is it perfect? No. I understand that ASA mechanics can be silly and restrictive given higher levels of play, but when we, as independent contractors choose to work for a given organization, we work for the letters on our shirt whether we like their mechanics and/or rules or not. Additionally, some people have bad history with other people so there is some politics involved, but I don't, and won't, participate in that.

That said, and I haven't had to do this yet, I would not be willing to work again for an organization that did not assign me games when I was available simply because I sometimes worked for some other organization. The exception to this would be if I were on ASA (or other orgs) staff. We work for the betterment of ourselves and the betterment of the game. ...And our big-bucks $30 game fee.

And some would disagree

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

To add my perspective;

I agree with ^^^^. It's a decision each assignor/coordinator needs to make to gain, improve, and/or keep staff. Not all "ball" is the same, and plays into it as well. And the concept of "loyalty" plays into it as well, and not everyone sees things the same way.

I have, over the years, needed to discourage umpires from working certain "ball", because I considered it detrimental to their development as umpires. Yes, independent contractors are free to accept whatever they wish; at the same time, assignors are free to assign or not assign by whatever standards they wish to apply.

Personally, I would let someone know up front what they might be doing that might affect future scheduling. Working BETTER ball; not a problem. Working junk ball that helps foster bad habits; yes, have said so, and have dealt with accordingly.

Why would you think bad habits would be fostered working lower skilled games (as you call it "junk ball")? You should be encouraging your umpires development and that usually comes with experience IMO; regardless of the level of ball they work. Some might say that working lower skill level games could actually foster good habits due to the many unusual things you may experience in such games. Bad habits come from being lazy most likely and not the quality of games being called...or worse, being snobby and thinking you should only work elite level games. Sure, game selection would be nice to only get the best action but even those games have their share of junk ball activities. Give your umpires guidance and encourage them to always bring their "A" game to EVERY contest and work with those that need constructive criticism. Too often I see assignors avoid scheduling certain leagues or geo areas because they labeled them as "junk ball" and then also wanna restrict their umpires from working them as well. There is a shortage of officials, not just warm bodies but quality officials as well. I say let them work wherever and whenever they can to improve their overall skills.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Why would you think bad habits would be fostered working lower skilled games (as you call it "junk ball")? You should be encouraging your umpires development and that usually comes with experience IMO; regardless of the level of ball they work. Some might say that working lower skill level games could actually foster good habits due to the many unusual things you may experience in such games. Bad habits come from being lazy most likely and not the quality of games being called...or worse, being snobby and thinking you should only work elite level games. Sure, game selection would be nice to only get the best action but even those games have their share of junk ball activities. Give your umpires guidance and encourage them to always bring their "A" game to EVERY contest and work with those that need constructive criticism. Too often I see assignors avoid scheduling certain leagues or geo areas because they labeled them as "junk ball" and then also wanna restrict their umpires from working them as well. There is a shortage of officials, not just warm bodies but quality officials as well. I say let them work wherever and whenever they can to improve their overall skills.

You may be right, but Steve isn't wrong.

I've seen umpires do great, utilize their training and work some great games. And I've seen some working outside my area or sanctioning body and their mechanics and effort have dropped off tremendously.

A lot of this comes from the lack of supervision and/or critique while working those games. It shouldn't happen, but it does.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Why would you think bad habits would be fostered working lower skilled games (as you call it "junk ball")? You should be encouraging your umpires development and that usually comes with experience IMO; regardless of the level of ball they work. Some might say that working lower skill level games could actually foster good habits due to the many unusual things you may experience in such games. Bad habits come from being lazy most likely and not the quality of games being called...or worse, being snobby and thinking you should only work elite level games. Sure, game selection would be nice to only get the best action but even those games have their share of junk ball activities. Give your umpires guidance and encourage them to always bring their "A" game to EVERY contest and work with those that need constructive criticism. Too often I see assignors avoid scheduling certain leagues or geo areas because they labeled them as "junk ball" and then also wanna restrict their umpires from working them as well. There is a shortage of officials, not just warm bodies but quality officials as well. I say let them work wherever and whenever they can to improve their overall skills.

I didn't get "junk ball" as less skilled, more about les organized, less structured, and minimal concern about quality of umpiring and mechanics. Although, I have seen that in the "better ball" as well.

[3afan]

FWIW, in this case the VTD league is better than the ASA league. But overall, the ASA umpires are a notch above the VTD crew.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Why would you think bad habits would be fostered working lower skilled games (as you call it "junk ball")? You should be encouraging your umpires development and that usually comes with experience IMO; regardless of the level of ball they work. Some might say that working lower skill level games could actually foster good habits due to the many unusual things you may experience in such games. Bad habits come from being lazy most likely and not the quality of games being called...or worse, being snobby and thinking you should only work elite level games. Sure, game selection would be nice to only get the best action but even those games have their share of junk ball activities. Give your umpires guidance and encourage them to always bring their "A" game to EVERY contest and work with those that need constructive criticism. Too often I see assignors avoid scheduling certain leagues or geo areas because they labeled them as "junk ball" and then also wanna restrict their umpires from working them as well. There is a shortage of officials, not just warm bodies but quality officials as well. I say let them work wherever and whenever they can to improve their overall skills.

This association allows plate umpire to overrule judgment calls by base umpire when the coach appeals directly to the non-calling plate umpire. Been there, watched it. Helped out one time, and nearly had to eject a coach who insisted he had that right. Coach then goes to the tournament director who wants to know "since when can't he do that"?

Bring your A game, but the bozo without a clue overrules a clear judgment call? Isn't there a rule that says this cannot happen (ASA 10.3.A, equivalent exists in EVERY rulebook that exists). Or when the Tournament Director overrules the rulebook for the almighty dollar?? Returns ejected coaches to the same game because he's a "good guy" and apologized? I don't care whatever else you believe, but I won't stand for any culture that allows any of this. THEN, you can deal with the level of competition not challenging an umpire that wants to move up.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

This association allows plate umpire to overrule judgment calls by base umpire when the coach appeals directly to the non-calling plate umpire. Been there, watched it. Helped out one time, and nearly had to eject a coach who insisted he had that right. Coach then goes to the tournament director who wants to know "since when can't he do that"?

Bring your A game, but the bozo without a clue overrules a clear judgment call? Isn't there a rule that says this cannot happen (ASA 10.3.A, equivalent exists in EVERY rulebook that exists). Or when the Tournament Director overrules the rulebook for the almighty dollar?? Returns ejected coaches to the same game because he's a "good guy" and apologized? I don't care whatever else you believe, but I won't stand for any culture that allows any of this. THEN, you can deal with the level of competition not challenging an umpire that wants to move up.

Ahh, great follow up Steve...I stand corrected on my interpretation when the context was the organization / admins / coaches...I was focused on the players skills getting the label.

[Umpteenth]

Originally Posted by 3afan

FWIW, in this case the VTD league is better than the ASA league. But overall, the ASA umpires are a notch above the VTD crew.

Just curious, are you in Denton, Grayson, or Collin county?

[3afan]

Originally Posted by Umpteenth

Just curious, are you in Denton, Grayson, or Collin county?

none of the above