NFHS Obstruction Interp

[Andy]

The PIAA thread reminded me of something that I wanted to check out....

I was working an ASA FP tournament this past weekend and a coach that is also a HS coach asked me if I had seen the new NFHS Obstruction interpretation.....I told him I hadn't and asked him where he saw it.
He said he got an email from NFHS.

His description to me was something about the defensive player cannot be positioned near the "face" or edge of the bag the runner is trying to get to.....

Has anybody (Dave ASA/FED) heard about this...I can't find any reference to it online....

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

The PIAA thread reminded me of something that I wanted to check out....

I was working an ASA FP tournament this past weekend and a coach that is also a HS coach asked me if I had seen the new NFHS Obstruction interpretation.....I told him I hadn't and asked him where he saw it.
He said he got an email from NFHS.

His description to me was something about the defensive player cannot be positioned near the "face" or edge of the bag the runner is trying to get to.....

Has anybody (Dave ASA/FED) heard about this...I can't find any reference to it online....

NFHS or HS-AZ?

If this exists,
- "near" must be defined.
- The rule is fielder not hindering any part of the base,
so is "positioned near the "face" or edge" a further restriction
or a narrowing of the rule?

[RKBUmp]

Looked all over the NFHS website and I see nothing with any clarification about obstruction. The last clarification on anything is about projected substitutions.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Andy

The PIAA thread reminded me of something that I wanted to check out....

I was working an ASA FP tournament this past weekend and a coach that is also a HS coach asked me if I had seen the new NFHS Obstruction interpretation.....I told him I hadn't and asked him where he saw it.
He said he got an email from NFHS.

His description to me was something about the defensive player cannot be positioned near the "face" or edge of the bag the runner is trying to get to.....

Has anybody (Dave ASA/FED) heard about this...I can't find any reference to it online....

Seems to me that was (local power) someone's (awful) interpretation of obstruction, akin to "you can't block the bag without the ball."

And I can assure you that mindset isn't prevalent in PIAA (not sure why the mention of PIAA reminded your of obstruction).

(not to hijack) and speaking of obstruction:
Episode 10

See the play between 1:45 to 2:10. What you got?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Seems to me that was (local power) someone's (awful) interpretation of obstruction, akin to "you can't block the bag without the ball."

And I can assure you that mindset isn't prevalent in PIAA (not sure why the mention of PIAA reminded your of obstruction).

(not to hijack) and speaking of obstruction:
Episode 10

See the play between 1:45 to 2:10. What you got?

Even with slo-mo, I've got a no-call.

The catcher set up inside the diamond; the runner headed back door fade-away on her own. THEN, the throw took the catcher to the back side, and the throw did beat her, allowing catcher possession before the runner actually arrived.

So, I don't see a hindered or otherwise impeded runner; I see a runner picking where she wants to go, and the catcher making a play.

But, that's just me.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Even with slo-mo, I've got a no-call.

The catcher set up inside the diamond; the runner headed back door fade-away on her own. THEN, the throw took the catcher to the back side, and the throw did beat her, allowing catcher possession before the runner actually arrived.

So, I don't see a hindered or otherwise impeded runner; I see a runner picking where she wants to go, and the catcher making a play.

But, that's just me.

No OBS in any shape or form in any code I work.

Any thoughts on the PU positioning on that play? The video angle is poop but it looks like he's making that call from the point of the plate. I know ASA loves 1BLX, but I'm OK with rotation when we follow the catcher's hips. POP is probably not a bad spot to see this particular play.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by teebob21

No OBS in any shape or form in any code I work.

Any thoughts on the PU positioning on that play? The video angle is poop but it looks like he's making that call from the point of the plate. I know ASA loves 1BLX, but I'm OK with rotation when we follow the catcher's hips. POP is probably not a bad spot to see this particular play.

I see it as the standard ASA back of RH batter's box. Not the best place on this play, IMO; the NCAA point of plate rotating to 3rd base line extended would have been a very much more definitive position, I think.

Remember, NCAA manual makes it clear that POP is not a calling position; it's like a holding zone while you read the play and rotate to a calling position.

[josephrt1]

Y'all are saying no obstruction but I am looking at the catcher's left foot. At 1:54 (and there are multiple frames at 1:54) the catcher has extended her foot into the base line which is also the path of the runner. At the early frames @ 1:54 the catcher is out of the base line. Then, while appearing to be tracking the ball in, she picks up her left foot and it comes down on the base line as the runner is sliding in. She has one foot on the baseline before catching the ball and the runner has no choice but to go around.

I have no idea how i would have seen that in real time, but it does look like she planted her foot in the runner's path before the ball arrived. And the runner was pretty close at that point.

Looking for guidance here.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

Y'all are saying no obstruction but I am looking at the catcher's left foot. At 1:54 (and there are multiple frames at 1:54) the catcher has extended her foot into the base line which is also the path of the runner. At the early frames @ 1:54 the catcher is out of the base line. Then, while appearing to be tracking the ball in, she picks up her left foot and it comes down on the base line as the runner is sliding in. She has one foot on the baseline before catching the ball and the runner has no choice but to go around.

I have no idea how i would have seen that in real time, but it does look like she planted her foot in the runner's path before the ball arrived. And the runner was pretty close at that point.

Looking for guidance here.

The defender simply being in the basepath is not in itself obstruction. You have to have 2 criteria met in order to have obstruction. The defender in the path of the runner without possession of the ball AND an actual impediment of the runner. The runner in the video posted never altered her route to the plate because of the catchers location nor did she make contact with the catcher prior to possession of the ball.

[josephrt1]

OK, thank you. Close play and i understand what you are saying. thanks

[Umpire@1]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I see it as the standard ASA back of RH batter's box. Not the best place on this play, IMO; the NCAA point of plate rotating to 3rd base line extended would have been a very much more definitive position, I think.

Remember, NCAA manual makes it clear that POP is not a calling position; it's like a holding zone while you read the play and rotate to a calling position.

I have no obs on the play. Looks pretty cut and dried to me if any of you care?
And yes the PU looks like he is where ASA wants to to be. Not always the best place, but as per ASA mechanic.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Umpire@1

I have no obs on the play. Looks pretty cut and dried to me if any of you care?

I'm not so sure it is cut and dry to me. Watching it on film (or whatever) from ground level at a less than desirable angle it is tough to tell if the runner made her move prior to the catcher sliding into what may have been the basepath. Then again, I wasn't convinced any of the tag outs shown were good calls

And yes the PU looks like he is where ASA wants to to be. Not always the best place, but as per ASA mechanic.

ASA only instructs the umpire to start at the outside rear corner of the RHBB. The manual then notes the umpire should adjust as needed as the play as it unfolds.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Andy

The PIAA thread reminded me of something that I wanted to check out....

I was working an ASA FP tournament this past weekend and a coach that is also a HS coach asked me if I had seen the new NFHS Obstruction interpretation.....I told him I hadn't and asked him where he saw it.
He said he got an email from NFHS.

His description to me was something about the defensive player cannot be positioned near the "face" or edge of the bag the runner is trying to get to.....

Has anybody (Dave ASA/FED) heard about this...I can't find any reference to it online....

would be interesting to see where this came from to my knowledge there is no such NFHS interpretation. And OBS is not even a POE this year.

[EsqUmp]

Pretty dangerous spot for the bat.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Pretty dangerous spot for the bat.

I assume that you are referring to the bat location in the play about the 1:45 mark of the video. That said I have no problem with the location of the bat.

MTD, Sr.