Late lineup insertion

[fredhjr]

09-09-16 ASA, 10U machine pitch. Lineups exchanged at plate during pregame conference. Apparently, no one really pays attention to them. One team has nine (9) players listed. The ninth player is on the lineup as a DP (who knows why?). A substitute for this team show up (she is on the roster but not the lineup sheet) and bats in the #3 spot. After a pitch, the opposing team brings this to the attention of the umpire. Umpire rules that the player that batted out of order has now become the legal batter at #10 in the lineup, and puts leadoff batter at plate. What say ya'll??

[teebob21]

1. The umpire had a huge brainfart with the lineup and/or needs to go back to a clinic for Remedial Lineup Management 101. Obviously, we can't have a DP without a Flex, and for that we need 10 players minimum.

2. The rostered player can be added to the substitute list at any time. ASA 4-1-A-2

3. Was the substitute still at bat when the defense reported it? If so, she is merely an unreported sub. The correct ruling in Championship play is that the player is now officially in the game in the #3 spot in the order. She is added to the lineup and resumes the at-bat with the current count. ASA 4-6-C-2 (We also now have a flustercluck with the lineup that is probably going to bring the UIC on the field, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.) Batting out of order is not a correct ruling, as this player is not yet in the batting order.

That said...if this is 10U local league play...honestly, I just fix it and let 'em play. These are 8-9-10 year-old girls with Daddy coaching. No one knows how to pitch. We're probably on a short time limit for the players. The team is batting 9 with one sub. There is no DP/Flex.

[fredhjr]

Correct on the umpire pregame error. As mentioned, no one really looked at the lineup sheets. The "unreported sub" had already batted and hit safely. Batter #4 was at the plate when a pitch was thrown. I suppose I shouldn't have said substitute in the original post because she was not a sub but an addition to the lineup. (At this age they frequently bat 10.) Therefore, when she entered the game she should have entered as the last place hitter in the lineup, correct? You are correct about the class. This was just a local invitational tourney.

[teebob21]

This player is a substitute. The game started with nine in the batting order; they need to end the game with nine in the batting order. The late arrival is a legal rostered player, so she can be added to the lineup as a sub at any time, and can be entered into the game for any player.

The player completed at turn at bat without reporting. Since she got on base, and a pitch was thrown to the next batter, the late arrival is legally in the game in the #3 position in the order. There is no penalty. Any advance of any runners is legal. B4 is the correct batter with whatever the current count is.

[Andy]

Here is my question:

When they put the new arrival in to bat, did the team just move everybody else down a spot in the order?

In other words, new girl (Mary) shows up after game starts, Player listed as #3 batter (Sally) hasn't come to bat yet. Did the coach tell Mary to bat third, then Sally to bat fourth, and so on down the order?

If this is what happened, now you have not only an unreported sub (Mary) but an illegal player (Sally) since Mary and Sally are both in the game on offense at the same time. Of course, these are the book rules. It sounds as if this local league/tournament was a bit lax on lineup rules, so I would suggest placing Sally in the third spot, moving everybody else down a spot, and play on....now if the opposing coach really wanted to push it, you would have to revert to the book rules.

[Umpteenth]

Our local leagues state that the late arriving player should be added to the bottom of the order with no penalty.

[fredhjr]

Yes, Andy. They put the late arrival in the batting order @ #3.
Thank everyone for your input. This is one of those object lessons you wish did not occur. When you become lax on some things, later negative happenings grow like chewing a gristled steak.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Andy

Here is my question:

When they put the new arrival in to bat, did the team just move everybody else down a spot in the order?

In other words, new girl (Mary) shows up after game starts, Player listed as #3 batter (Sally) hasn't come to bat yet. Did the coach tell Mary to bat third, then Sally to bat fourth, and so on down the order?

If this is what happened, now you have not only an unreported sub (Mary) but an illegal player (Sally) since Mary and Sally are both in the game on offense at the same time. Of course, these are the book rules. It sounds as if this local league/tournament was a bit lax on lineup rules, so I would suggest placing Sally in the third spot, moving everybody else down a spot, and play on....now if the opposing coach really wanted to push it, you would have to revert to the book rules.

I disagree. I don't care if the coach told the extra player to go kick a field goal it doesn't change the fact that she is an unreported substitute for whoever she is playing for. And for the purposes of figuring that out assume they are batting in order.
Consider for example, if the coach told you that she had told Sally to bat for the 7th spot. Do you have batting out of order and the 8th batter called up?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by fredhjr

09-09-16 ASA, 10U machine pitch. Lineups exchanged at plate during pregame conference. Apparently, no one really pays attention to them. One team has nine (9) players listed. The ninth player is on the lineup as a DP (who knows why?). A substitute for this team show up (she is on the roster but not the lineup sheet) and bats in the #3 spot. After a pitch, the opposing team brings this to the attention of the umpire. Umpire rules that the player that batted out of order has now become the legal batter at #10 in the lineup, and puts leadoff batter at plate. What say ya'll??

To start, this game should not have been wasting resources by using umpires for this level of game.

Secondly, the line-up provided prior to the game is the official line-up and unless starting the game short-handed, no player may be added to the line-up, but can only be used as a substitute and, in some cases, a courtesy runner.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by youngump

I disagree. I don't care if the coach told the extra player to go kick a field goal it doesn't change the fact that she is an unreported substitute for whoever she is playing for. And for the purposes of figuring that out assume they are batting in order.
Consider for example, if the coach told you that she had told Sally to bat for the 7th spot. Do you have batting out of order and the 8th batter called up?

Obviously, you didn't read my entire post.....

All the responses have been centered on the book rules, which I don't disagree with. My response of inserting the player in the lineup and moving on was based on THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION, which was a local league/tournament with somewhat lax lineup rules and enforcement of such. That was my inference from the OP....

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

Obviously, you didn't read my entire post.....

All the responses have been centered on the book rules, which I don't disagree with. My response of inserting the player in the lineup and moving on was based on THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION, which was a local league/tournament with somewhat lax lineup rules and enforcement of such. That was my inference from the OP....

I thought that from the beginning; wondering why everyone appeared to obsess over book rule in a game that isn't even in the book!! For someone clearly not looking for a ruling so much as to agree with a local rule that we don't have.

Note, the OP's issue wasn't that she was added (which cannot happen in championship play), but that she wasn't added to the bottom!!