Interesting Plays

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by wrigleywannabe

We just finished our rec league play, tonight actually, for the league I serve as Commissioner for and umpire in.

I had two plays at the plate during tourney games that were rather interesting. Both in 11U, which is 9,10 and 11 year olds

Play 1 - Runner slides into home while attempting to score on a passed ball. She has her lead foot toes straight up.

Pitcher is covering and drops the tag down on the bottom of the runner's foot.

The runner slid a little early and comes to stop right as the tag hits her foot.

Initially, she looks short of the plate, but her heel is resting on the black.

I'll leave it a mystery, for now, what I called.

We play NFHS, except for a few local rec exemptions that don't pertain to the call.

Play 2 - Catcher makes a tag on a runner at home. Right after the tag is applied she makes some movements that lead me to think the impact of the slide into her glove might have moved the ball and she's fighting to keep control and not lose it.

I say something like "Show me the ball. I need to see you have it". She never actually shows me the ball, but her glove is closed, off hand on top and she holds them up in the air.

Obviously, she has the ball and has it controlled. I call the runner out.

Third base coach starts yelling, when I ask him what he wants, he points to second.

During the call at home, the batter/runner had gone to second base.

Her initial hit had been bobbled by the SS, which caused the runner on third to break and the throw to go there.

After talking to my partner between innings. turns out she never even hesitated. Base coach was waving her to second as soon as he saw the throw was going home.

Once I told the coach I had to make sure the catcher had the ball and I can't call time on live ball, he calms down right away, seems to realize what I'm getting at.

Fans are just going nuts.

The whole thing was silly.

The catcher wound up, more or less, sitting/lying on the runner from the impact of the slide and dropping down to tag her. On no known planet was she going to get up and throw the girl out at second, let alone from the ground

I put my mask back on and start to get in position for the next pitch and it still sounds like World War Three in the stands, banging on the bleachers and carrying on, even after they all heard my explanation.

Normally, I go about my business, but this is one those teams that every rec league has. The one all the other teams complain about the fans. The one I can't get any of my umps to work their games. The one where their own fans segregate from the one or two who cause problems, etc.

There had been some close plays already and it';s one of those times you can see it starting to get out of control, if you let it go.

I decide I'm going to nip it in the bud, right there.

I take off my mask, turn part way around, but not fully and don't make eye contact with anyone. I just speaking in general to no one and everyone, at the same time.

I say everyone needs to calm down, that the runner is out, had to see the ball, can't call time, etc.

I go back to the plate and I hear a lady tell the girls good job, he just needed to see the ball and I think "cool", somebody gets it.

Then, some guy yells "good play, bad call". It's clear from the tone, he's trying to show me up.

I'm thinking "really". I think about turning back around, but had no idea who said it, so I just acted like I never heard it.

After the game, I had, at least, 6 or 7 people stop me and thank me for doing that and not letting the circus get out of hand.

The funny thing was, probably all but two of them were from the team that was complaining

One even told me good job and apologized on behalf of his aunt, who must have been the lady I heard kind of start it all. She'd also been really loud on some balls and strikes throughout the game.

To top it off, I asked the catcher, who I knew a little bit, if she understood why I asked her to show me the ball. She said "yeah" in a way like she wanted to say "I know more than those idiots who were yelling at you"

Sometimes the kids get it, even when the parents don't.

Your plates / fields must be better than the ones I am working on. To see she is only on the black (but not on the white) would be impossible without a very close up visual inspection on my fields. Even when trying to keep the black of the plate clean, on a slide at the plate I would have dust moved across in front of her foot, making the play very difficult to call (black or white of the plate).

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Your plates / fields must be better than the ones I am working on. To see she is only on the black (but not on the white) would be impossible without a very close up visual inspection on my fields. Even when trying to keep the black of the plate clean, on a slide at the plate I would have dust moved across in front of her foot, making the play very difficult to call (black or white of the plate).

So, never guess an out ??

[MD Longhorn]

No one asked ... so I will.

Why is the third base coach (an offensive coach) upset that the baserunner (an offensive player) got an extra base?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

So, never guess an out ??

It will take a close inspection. Not a problem for me making the call, but if I call her out for only touching the black, you can bet the umpires in the stands (all of whom have a much better view than I do (often directly though my back as well).

The loudest, most annoying, fan I had all season this year (who ended up getting his walking papers) was swearing about a call at the plate that he had absolutely no ability to see because my large behind was directly in line with where he was and the play at the plate. (Very similar to the OP play). If he had any view of the play he had X-ray vision. He had no problem voicing his opinion which got him a request to exit the facility from the campus police.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

It will take a close inspection. Not a problem for me making the call, but if I call her out for only touching the black, you can bet the umpires in the stands (all of whom have a much better view than I do (often directly though my back as well).

The loudest, most annoying, fan I had all season this year (who ended up getting his walking papers) was swearing about a call at the plate that he had absolutely no ability to see because my large behind was directly in line with where he was and the play at the plate. (Very similar to the OP play). If he had any view of the play he had X-ray vision. He had no problem voicing his opinion which got him a request to exit the facility from the campus police.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, in ASA touching the black is same as touching the plate

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, if it makes you feel any better, in ASA touching the black is same as touching the plate

Kinda the reverse of the "hands are part of the bat" argument?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Kinda the reverse of the "hands are part of the bat" argument?

To hopefully add to the discussion: hands are removable from the bat without defacing either. The black cannot be removed from the plate without altering it. Nor can the sides of the bases be removed from them without alteration to the base.

Doesn't make one whit of difference in any of those cases, but it makes logical sense to me when I think about it this way.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, if it makes you feel any better, in ASA touching the black is same as touching the plate

To those wondering how that statement is reconciled with the prior statement regarding the actual width (measurement) of the plate, I offer the following explanation.

The bases (bags) are also a defined width; 15" square. But that (square) is a two-dimensional object, while the base has sides (ie, a height). If a runner is in contact with the side of a base, we consider that "on" the base, right?

Home plate has an edge (in black), which also can/should be considered a side to the plate. It is, partially, by the nature of the flare; it is not, partially, as it also extends beyond the stated dimension. Since there can be zero consistency in determining which part is side, which part is an extension, it is for consistency sake that the black be considered the side, and a runner touching ANY PART of the physical object is to be considered to be touching the plate.

Paraphrased, again from the prior ASA NUS regime leaders, HP and MB.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

To those wondering how that statement is reconciled with the prior statement regarding the actual width (measurement) of the plate, I offer the following explanation.

The bases (bags) are also a defined width; 15" square. But that (square) is a two-dimensional object, while the base has sides (ie, a height). If a runner is in contact with the side of a base, we consider that "on" the base, right?

Home plate has an edge (in black), which also can/should be considered a side to the plate. It is, partially, by the nature of the flare; it is not, partially, as it also extends beyond the stated dimension. Since there can be zero consistency in determining which part is side, which part is an extension, it is for consistency sake that the black be considered the side, and a runner touching ANY PART of the physical object is to be considered to be touching the plate.

Paraphrased, again from the prior ASA NUS regime leaders, HP and MB.

And the Clinic Guide. BTW, does anyone know if ASA still publishes a clinic guide for the UICs?

Originally Posted by Dakota

Kinda the reverse of the "hands are part of the bat" argument?

Well, same theory just from a different angle

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And the Clinic Guide. BTW, does anyone know if ASA still publishes a clinic guide for the UICs?

There's a clinic guide included on the casebook CD.

Black is part of the plate.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Your plates / fields must be better than the ones I am working on. To see she is only on the black (but not on the white) would be impossible without a very close up visual inspection on my fields. Even when trying to keep the black of the plate clean, on a slide at the plate I would have dust moved across in front of her foot, making the play very difficult to call (black or white of the plate).

He already said she only touched the black. Given that, it's an out.