Interesting plays

[Forksref]

We had these plays in a JV game this week (Fed):

1. Scrimmage kick on 4th down by K12 hits K70 in the butt, doesn't cross neutral zone and K12 picks it up and runs with it. Doesn't reach the line to gain. Legal run?

2. Block in the back in the endzone by A84, then A33 scores a touchdown. Enforcement, including basic spot?

3. During the return of a free kick, R55 blocks in the back, then K40 grabs the facemask in making the tackle. Enforcement?

4. Fumble by A15 recovered by B77 at the bottom of the pile. After spotting the ball for B's possession, L comes up and says A60 had it by himself on the ground (dead) and then B77 pulled it from him. Procedure?

5. On a run by A we have block in the back by A67, facemask on B32. After play is over, L (new to the position) tells R that he had B in the neutral zone prior to the snap. Enforcement/procedure?


Just a little mid-season pop quiz. I told the crew that the first half went too smoothly and that something was going to happen in the 2nd half. All the above plays occurred in a span of about 6 minutes on the clock in the 2nd half.

[bigwes68]

Originally Posted by Forksref

We had these plays in a JV game this week (Fed):

1. Scrimmage kick on 4th down by K12 hits K70 in the butt, doesn't cross neutral zone and K12 picks it up and runs with it. Doesn't reach the line to gain. Legal run?

2. Block in the back in the endzone by A84, then A33 scores a touchdown. Enforcement, including basic spot?

3. During the return of a free kick, R55 blocks in the back, then K40 grabs the facemask in making the tackle. Enforcement?

4. Fumble by A15 recovered by B77 at the bottom of the pile. After spotting the ball for B's possession, L comes up and says A60 had it by himself on the ground (dead) and then B77 pulled it from him. Procedure?

5. On a run by A we have block in the back by A67, facemask on B32. After play is over, L (new to the position) tells R that he had B in the neutral zone prior to the snap. Enforcement/procedure?


Just a little mid-season pop quiz. I told the crew that the first half went too smoothly and that something was going to happen in the 2nd half. All the above plays occurred in a span of about 6 minutes on the clock in the 2nd half.

1. Yes. K may catch or recover any scrimmage kick behind the neutral zone and advance, regardless of whether it crossed the NZ.

2. More info needed. A's end zone or B's end zone? Running play or loose ball play? Assuming B's end zone: If LBP, enforce from previous spot. If running play, basic spot is end of run, therefore, enforce from goal line.

3. Both fouls happened after a change of possession, so if R wants to keep the ball, they must decline K's facemask foul and then R's foul is automatically accepted. If R accepts K's facemask foul, penalties offset, rekick.

4. Why wasn't L in there helping dig through the pile? L should have spoken up sooner. If you change your call now, get ready for an all-out s***-storm. Oh, and let L tell B's head coach what he saw personally. B's ball.

5. Wow, L is causing all sorts of trouble. Given the situation, I'd probably tell L to pick up his flag, then offset the other two penalties and replay the down. There isn't anything in the rulebook that really covers that situation, although I'm sure it's happened to everyone. I suppose you could say the play never happened and enforce the encroachment penalty, but that would also be a fun one to explain to the coach.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Forksref

1. Scrimmage kick on 4th down by K12 hits K70 in the butt, doesn't cross neutral zone and K12 picks it up and runs with it. Doesn't reach the line to gain. Legal run?

My thought was "legal run", and I believe I'm correct. 6-2-3 - "Any kicker may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behiind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try."

Originally Posted by Forksref

2. Block in the back in the endzone by A84, then A33 scores a touchdown. Enforcement, including basic spot?

Basic spot is the goal line (end of the run). Penalize 10 yards, repeat the down from the B10 yard line. 10-4-4 - "The basic spot is the spot where the related run ends for a foul which occurs during a running play..."

Originally Posted by Forksref

3. During the return of a free kick, R55 blocks in the back, then K40 grabs the facemask in making the tackle. Enforcement?

If R wants to keep the ball, they decline K's facemask penalty - R 1st and ten from 10 yards back from the basic spot (either the end of the run-back, or spot of the foul, whichever is further back for R).

If R wants a shot at better field position, R accepts K's penalty = offsetting double foul. Re-kick from the previous spot. 6-1-7-b, 10-2-c.

This is no different than from both teams fouling after an interception. If the team that ends up with the ball wants to keep it, they have their penalty enforced and decline the other team's.

Originally Posted by Forksref

4. Fumble by A15 recovered by B77 at the bottom of the pile. After spotting the ball for B's possession, L comes up and says A60 had it by himself on the ground (dead) and then B77 pulled it from him. Procedure?

R corrects the situation and informs both head coaches of the situation.

Originally Posted by Forksref

5. On a run by A we have block in the back by A67, facemask on B32. After play is over, L (new to the position) tells R that he had B in the neutral zone prior to the snap. Enforcement/procedure?

There was no previous play. R goes through the normal enforcement procedure of preliminary encroachment signal (this would further help explain what is going on), explaining to B captain the penalty, having the U and HL step it off and spot the ball from the previous spot (the chains shouldn't have moved), then signaling (and probably saying loudly, "Prior to the snap..." dead ball, encroachment, etc. R should also instruct the veteran wing to explain what happened to the head coach on their side, and the R should go explain the situation to the rookie wing's head coach if they deem it necessary. R works with BJ (and rest of crew) to put the correct time back on the clock. The "I/he/she couldn't find the whistle" explanation might work there, I think.

I don't think the R would physically wave off the flags, because there was still an accepted penalty.

What do you think, R's?

[ljudge]

Originally Posted by Forksref

We had these plays in a JV game this week (Fed):

1. Scrimmage kick on 4th down by K12 hits K70 in the butt, doesn't cross neutral zone and K12 picks it up and runs with it. Doesn't reach the line to gain. Legal run?

Not only a legal run, but he could have punted the ball again! I actually saw this for the first time last Friday night in a varsity game except it hit an R player. R blocked the ball and it bounced right back to the punter who caught it, then re-kicked.

Legal play!

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

My thought was "legal run", and I believe I'm correct. 6-2-3 - "Any kicker may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behiind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try."



Basic spot is the goal line (end of the run). Penalize 10 yards, repeat the down from the B10 yard line. 10-4-4 - "The basic spot is the spot where the related run ends for a foul which occurs during a running play..."



If R wants to keep the ball, they decline K's facemask penalty - R 1st and ten from 10 yards back from the basic spot (either the end of the run-back, or spot of the foul, whichever is further back for R).

If R wants a shot at better field position, R accepts K's penalty = offsetting double foul. Re-kick from the previous spot. 6-1-7-b, 10-2-c.

This is no different than from both teams fouling after an interception. If the team that ends up with the ball wants to keep it, they have their penalty enforced and decline the other team's.



R corrects the situation and informs both head coaches of the situation.



There was no previous play. R goes through the normal enforcement procedure of preliminary encroachment signal (this would further help explain what is going on), explaining to B captain the penalty, having the U and HL step it off and spot the ball from the previous spot (the chains shouldn't have moved), then signaling (and probably saying loudly, "Prior to the snap..." dead ball, encroachment, etc. R should also instruct the veteran wing to explain what happened to the head coach on their side, and the R should go explain the situation to the rookie wing's head coach if they deem it necessary. R works with BJ (and rest of crew) to put the correct time back on the clock. The "I/he/she couldn't find the whistle" explanation might work there, I think.

I don't think the R would physically wave off the flags, because there was still an accepted penalty.

What do you think, R's?

I agree with all of these and want to add one thing. Chew out the L (even though he's new) and tell him to get in the rule book!

[Forksref]

1. Legal run. K did not reach line to gain. 1st and 10 for R.
2. Basic spot is end of the run. Used goal line for end of run. A's ball at 10 yd line.
3. R declined K's penalty. R's ball after 10 yd penalty for block in the back.
4. We gave the ball back to A. I knew we had to "get it right." The L explained to B's coaches what happened. They were OK with it. We had a discussion later about sticking up for your call and selling it! The pile was pretty far from the L and we had no LJ who normally would have been closer to the pile. Lessons to be learned by the L.
5. We went back to the previous spot and penalized 5 yds against B for the encroachment. Other flags were picked up. Both coaches were OK with it. No issue with the clock as the game was a blowout.

This was a 3-man crew and the L was new to the position. Again, Lessons to be learned!