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Had both of these plays in a JV game tonight -- neither one affected the outcome of the game (final was 30-0), but there was some disagreement on my crew on both plays.
PLAY 1: 2-9 for A at B's 15. A1 pitches to A22, who fumbles. The loose ball is muffed several times until B45 recovers at B's 40. He advances to A's 20, where he fumbles and A recovers and is downed. What is the next down? Is A awarded a new series at its own 20, or is it 3rd and Alabama? PLAY 2: 4-5 for A, somewhere near midfield. A has 11 players on the field. A's coaches begin yelling at A14, "What are you doing, son? Get off the field...etc...etc." He runs toward sideline, stops about a foot from line, ball is snapped, A14 runs a pass route but QB is sacked on the play. Defense did not fall for the blatant deception. After the play, I inform the coach that what he did was not legal and that on Friday night, that would get him flagged for USC (I did not call it because A was already way behind and it was late in the 4th quarter). Of course, "They let us do it last week," and "We've done it in lots of varsity games this year with no problem." The response I loved most from him was, "Peyton does it all the time, I copied it from him." Keep in mind I am from Knoxville and everything Peyton Manning does is gospel to these people. Thoughts on these two plays? |
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1.) 1st and 10
2.) Why did the coach not bring this up in the beginning of the game when you asked him if he had any trick plays? This is illegal and I may have done the same in a blowout game and no advantage was gained. |
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9 6 4 d
to use a player, replaced player or a substitute in substition or pretended substition to deceive opponents at or immd before the sanp is illegal participation [Edited by andy1033 on Oct 18th, 2005 at 11:10 AM] |
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yankeesfan I respectfully disagree with you. Andy is 100% correct in this and I share the philosopohy of "let em play." The coach clearly had this planned and it's a textbook description of how the IP rule is written with respect to it's deception component of the rule.
It's IP all the way. |
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You do want a flag on the ground at the snap though. |
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If you did call it an USC, what would you do if Team A scored on the play? USC calls for succeeding spot enforcement. You would have to award the TD and penalize on the try.
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Bob M. |
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Also notice I said dead ball USC so the ball never becomes alive eliminating the TD. The foul could also be charged to the brain child of this mess instead of the players. I get the illegal participation, I just think the USC occurred prior to the snap and should be prevent the play from ever starting. |
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9.9.3b is for the "Hey coach, we need a new ball!" play, and similar variants. A play where they are trying to get the defense to relax, and then snap the ball when they aren't ready.
The illegal sub play is different, and is SPECIFICALLY addressed by the illegal participation rule. No USC here.
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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