BR: Out or Safe?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by teebob21

The player is no longer entitled to overrun protection as she has attempted to advance to 2B. The runner is out as a live-ball appeal for the missed base if they tagged her before the retouch of 1B, out as an overslide if off the bag. 8-7-H, 8-7-B

But she didn't attempt to advance to second after touching first and 8-8-I gives protection regardless of whether there was an earlier attempt to advance to second.

[CecilOne]

I like to find a consensus in topics, especially one like this with divergent comments on multiple tangents.

It looks like the consensus is that the BR actually does overrun 1st during his pivot, is safe with his hand touch, is out with the foot tag.

Also, consensus seems to be no attempt at 2nd; and for purpose of this discussion, ignored the 3 feet off path possibility.

[CecilOne]

BTW, a great example if the inconsistency of rules and terms (not to mention interpretations), both within and between books.

[teebob21]

Irish - this is probably the best summary in layman's terms I've seen in the thread. I went back and re-watched the play after realizing I was 5 posts into this thread without seeing it again after my first post. I'll agree that this is an out under 8-7-B.

Youngump - I know you're trying to get me to think through the interpretation with evermore improbable scenarios, which is a good way to logically test the rules. However, I think we're beyond the pale on instances that apply to this play.

Cecil - Completely agree on the highlighting of inconsistencies. There are a number of points raised in this thread, and the ASA rules I cited, that could benefit from clarification, such as:

- Define "reaches a base": When this term is used in the book, it seems to include passing and touching.
- Define "passes a base": What is the point at which a base is considered passed, especially when there is no attempt to advance past it? The consensus seems to be the base line connecting the base in question and the next one, regardless of the direction the runner is moving. Other than common sense (which isn't always applicable ) I can't find this in the book.
- Define the conditions for a legal overrun at 1B more clearly
- Live ball appeal requirements
- The Overslide definition

Et cetera...