Hit by pitch, award base or not?

[chapmaja]

USSSA rules:

Batter assumes her batting stance in the box with her feet just inside the box on the plate side line (very tight to the plate). Her elbows are parallel to the ground extending over home plate several inches.

Pitch comes in and the batter starts to swing, but holds up her swing. In starting her swing, her elbows extend farther over the plate. The ball hits her in the elbow.

Obviously she was hit by the pitch, the question is do you award first base?

[jmkupka]

obviously, not if that elbow was in the strike zone when it was hit... it's a strike.

Aside from that, her motion, while not intentionally trying to get hit, did put the elbow in the path of the pitch, and couldn't be considered "trying to avoid".

Thinking about this at game speed, you'd have a good case for leaving her at bat.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

obviously, not if that elbow was in the strike zone when it was hit... it's a strike.

Aside from that, her motion, while not intentionally trying to get hit, did put the elbow in the path of the pitch, and couldn't be considered "trying to avoid".

Thinking about this at game speed, you'd have a good case for leaving her at bat.

You're joking - right.

[BlueDevilRef]

Leave all other thoughts out of it. Only thing you worry about here is if the pitch was in the strike zone. If so, as you stated, it is a dead ball strike.

[RKBUmp]

I would have a very hard time awarding 1st on a HBP with a ball that was over the plate. Even if it wasnt a strike, as in high out of the zone, the batter does not belong over the plate.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

USSSA rules:

Batter assumes her batting stance in the box with her feet just inside the box on the plate side line (very tight to the plate). Her elbows are parallel to the ground extending over home plate several inches.

Pitch comes in and the batter starts to swing, but holds up her swing. In starting her swing, her elbows extend farther over the plate. The ball hits her in the elbow.

Obviously she was hit by the pitch, the question is do you award first base?

I don't do USSSA, but isn't it like NFHS? The batter gets first if hit by the ball entirely in the batters box or if hit by the ball outside the strike zone and she made an attempt to avoid getting hit? If so, though I'm having trouble visualizing this outside the strike zone, UJ ball/strike and UJ avoid/not.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I would have a very hard time awarding 1st on a HBP with a ball that was over the plate. Even if it wasnt a strike, as in high out of the zone, the batter does not belong over the plate.

Batter starts for a high outside pitch,and holds up. It hits her. You're going to make her stay at the plate?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Batter starts for a high outside pitch,and holds up. It hits her. You're going to make her stay at the plate?

You mean inside right? If a batter gets hit by a pitch that's outside, I'm having real trouble visualizing her getting to 1st.

[josephrt1]

Haven't had it happen recently, but ball over the 'river' and batter doesn't move away or steps into it, I don't award the base unless its also ball 4. Over the batter's box, different story. If its over the batter's box in HS or ASA I'm putting the batter on base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

Haven't had it happen recently, but ball over the 'river' and batter doesn't move away or steps into it, I don't award the base unless its also ball 4. Over the batter's box, different story. If its over the batter's box in HS or ASA I'm putting the batter on base.

HS and ASA are different. See clarifications in 2 earlier topics.

https://forum.officiating.com/softba...tml#post988734

[teebob21]

I don't do any U-Trip, so I could be completely wrong here. This sounds like: Ball in the strike zone, batter hit by pitch = dead ball strike.

However, to make conversation, let's nitpick OP's situation: "Elbows parallel to the ground over the plate". (paraphrasing) When I look in the mirror, that means my elbows are above my armpits. This is a ball in all codes I work (except 8U...he he he sigh. ). Did she drop her elbows to swing? If so, the elbows are inside the book-defined zone if this isn't a college game. I can't imagine the motion required to extend the elbows farther into the zone on the swing, but then again, I have seen some real ugly swings. This is where we make the big bucks: was the elbow in the zone or not.

Luckily the rule is clear in most codes. (1) Either the ball was or was not in the strike zone. (2) Either the ball was or was not entirely within the batters box. (3) Either the batter did or did not attempt to avoid, in the judgment of the umpire. As mentioned before, a starting a check swing and then getting hit may or may not be an attempt to avoid. HTBT. Apply the applicable rule based on these three yes/no questions.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I don't do any U-Trip, so I could be completely wrong here. This sounds like: Ball in the strike zone, batter hit by pitch = dead ball strike.

However, to make conversation, let's nitpick OP's situation: "Elbows parallel to the ground over the plate". (paraphrasing) When I look in the mirror, that means my elbows are above my armpits. This is a ball in all codes I work (except 8U...he he he sigh. ). Did she drop her elbows to swing? If so, the elbows are inside the book-defined zone if this isn't a college game. I can't imagine the motion required to extend the elbows farther into the zone on the swing, but then again, I have seen some real ugly swings. This is where we make the big bucks: was the elbow in the zone or not.

Luckily the rule is clear in most codes. (1) Either the ball was or was not in the strike zone. (2) Either the ball was or was not entirely within the batters box. (3) Either the batter did or did not attempt to avoid, in the judgment of the umpire. As mentioned before, a starting a check swing and then getting hit may or may not be an attempt to avoid. HTBT. Apply the applicable rule based on these three yes/no questions.

In response. The batter moved to start a swing on a ball that was at shoulder height. I would not have ruled this a strike even at 8U. The ball was above at least part, if not the entire plate. While it was a ball, it certainly wasn't in the batters box and she certainly moved to create contact with the ball (it might have grazed her absent her motion, but it got her pretty square as a result of her movement).

I ruled it a dead ball, called a ball on the batter and kept her in the batters box. After the inning the coach again tried discussing the play. I watched he the next couple pitches and she was standing with her elbows extending over the plate as part of her natural batting stance.