Who's the pitcher?

[Little Jimmy]

This happened on another field this weekend and was talked about in the umpire camp. USSSA rules, but as always, all rule set info would be good.

#17 is the pitcher of record. At the beginning of inning 4, # 10 walks to the circle, picks up the ball, and throws 1 warm up. #17 now comes in circle to throw warm ups, but offensive coach argues that since #10 threw a warm up, she is now an unannounced sub and the new pitcher, and has to pitch to the first batter. Defensive coach says he was considering putting #10 in to pitch, but changed his mind and decided to keep #17 as pitcher.

There was a ruling on the field but before I say what it was I wanted to know what you thought. I think this has been discussed before but I can't find a previous thread.

[Little Jimmy]

The title should have been "Who's the pitcher".

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

This happened on another field this weekend and was talked about in the umpire camp. USSSA rules, but as always, all rule set info would be good.

#17 is the pitcher of record. At the beginning of inning 4, # 10 walks to the circle, picks up the ball, and throws 1 warm up. #17 now comes in circle to throw warm ups, but offensive coach argues that since #10 threw a warm up, she is now an unannounced sub and the new pitcher, and has to pitch to the first batter. Defensive coach says he was considering putting #10 in to pitch, but changed his mind and decided to keep #17 as pitcher.

There was a ruling on the field but before I say what it was I wanted to know what you thought. I think this has been discussed before but I can't find a previous thread.

I think, and I think we have concluded before that a player can throw the ball from anywhere to another player without changing position.

[Andy]

Offensive coach must have been a former Little League coach...that's the only rule set I know of that has a rule like that.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

I think this has been discussed before but I can't find a previous thread.

Found it, posted by ....

https://forum.officiating.com/softba...-up-pitch.html

[Little Jimmy]

Thanks Cecil for the link and hey, it was me that started the same kind of thread a couple of years ago. I guess I never learn

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by Andy

Offensive coach must have been a former Little League coach...that's the only rule set I know of that has a rule like that.

Was working a JV game once, the home team's pitcher was a touch....wild. She hit a batter almost once an inning...sometimes two! About the 4th, she - you guessed it - hit another batter. suddenly the OC comes out and says, "That's 5 - she's out of the game...." It was not a question. I go, "Five??" "That's rule - 5 hit batters and she's done" "No, that's not the rule" The coach continues with saying shes out of the game. I keep telling him that is not the rule here. He finally gives up and we continue. Apparently that was a LL rule - so I was told. (btw - she hits two more batters the NEXT inning, and after the second one, I just STARED at the home coach, steam coming out of my ears, the coach looks at me, and FINALLY takes the poor kid out. I, of course am very polite, and say "THANK you coach..." )

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Was working a JV game once, the home team's pitcher was a touch....wild. She hit a batter almost once an inning...sometimes two! About the 4th, she - you guessed it - hit another batter. suddenly the OC comes out and says, "That's 5 - she's out of the game...." It was not a question. I go, "Five??" "That's rule - 5 hit batters and she's done" "No, that's not the rule" The coach continues with saying shes out of the game. I keep telling him that is not the rule here. He finally gives up and we continue. Apparently that was a LL rule - so I was told. (btw - she hits two more batters the NEXT inning, and after the second one, I just STARED at the home coach, steam coming out of my ears, the coach looks at me, and FINALLY takes the poor kid out. I, of course am very polite, and say "THANK you coach..." )

Work my first Rec (Wreck) League game of the season today (ok yesterday evening since it is 12:40 am).

They have instituted a 3 HBP limit for a pitcher. The pitcher has already hit two batters early on, one in the side, one in the thigh. Pitch comes in, bounces 5 feet in front of the plate, then again 2 feet in front. It kicks off a pebble in front of the plate rolls over and rolls into the foot of the batter, who is entirely within the batters box. It is clear that the ball "hit" her foot. The offensive coach comes out and says "She needs to be removed, that was 3 batters she hit." Sadly, he was right and the DC knew it. After the game the DC comes over and asks "Would you have told me she needed to leave the game if the coach hadn't said something?" My response was "It is the rule coach." All the time I was thinking, this is a stupid rule that leaves no judgment to the umpire. I sure as heck would not have removed the pitcher for this because it wasn't the intent of the rule, nor was a ball rolling against the batters foot a "safety" issue.

[josephrt1]

An instance where a coach said the pitcher need to be removed.

After 3rd out, 3rd base coach stopped in the circle, picked up the ball and waited for his pitcher to arrive. Exchanged a few words with her and then went off to the dugout. After a couple of batters the same coach called time and came out to talk to his pitcher. Then it started from the defensive coach addressing the PU. (I was BU.) Hey blue that's the 2nd conference this inning, he has to pull his pitcher! My partner told him no way but the guy wouldn't shut up. So my partner came to talk to me and I confirmed no such rule in softball and the first "trip" was during the break and not even a charged conference. The DC headed back to the dugout but continued to voice his opinion that we didn't know what the heck we were doing. I called time and paid a visit to his dugout and put a stop to this nonsense.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Work my first Rec (Wreck) League game of the season today (ok yesterday evening since it is 12:40 am).

They have instituted a 3 HBP limit for a pitcher. The pitcher has already hit two batters early on, one in the side, one in the thigh. Pitch comes in, bounces 5 feet in front of the plate, then again 2 feet in front. It kicks off a pebble in front of the plate rolls over and rolls into the foot of the batter, who is entirely within the batters box. It is clear that the ball "hit" her foot. The offensive coach comes out and says "She needs to be removed, that was 3 batters she hit." Sadly, he was right and the DC knew it. After the game the DC comes over and asks "Would you have told me she needed to leave the game if the coach hadn't said something?" My response was "It is the rule coach." All the time I was thinking, this is a stupid rule that leaves no judgment to the umpire. I sure as heck would not have removed the pitcher for this because it wasn't the intent of the rule, nor was a ball rolling against the batters foot a "safety" issue.

No, no, no.

This ball that bounced twice and rolled into the batter is NOT a HBP. Obviously the batter made no effort to get out of the way of it. If you gave that batter first base ... shame on you.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No, no, no.

This ball that bounced twice and rolled into the batter is NOT a HBP. Obviously the batter made no effort to get out of the way of it. If you gave that batter first base ... shame on you.

Strictly speaking isn't it a HBP for which the penalty is a ball?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Strictly speaking isn't it a HBP for which the penalty is a ball?

No.

Hit-By-Pitch is the scoring designation given to a player who is awarded first base due to being hit by a pitch. That term has no definition in the non-scoring section of the book, and the rule (8-1-F) that directs us to award first base when a batter is hit by a pitch (or the exception that directs us not to if the batter doesn't try to avoid) does not reference "HBP".

HBP has a very specific meaning - and it ONLY applies to a batter that is awarded 1st.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No, no, no.

This ball that bounced twice and rolled into the batter is NOT a HBP. Obviously the batter made no effort to get out of the way of it. If you gave that batter first base ... shame on you.

Doesn't that depend on rule set?

[blueump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Doesn't that depend on rule set?

Yup!

Fed ball does nor require the batter to avoid being hit as long as the ball is completely within the batter's box.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No.

Hit-By-Pitch is the scoring designation given to a player who is awarded first base due to being hit by a pitch. That term has no definition in the non-scoring section of the book, and the rule (8-1-F) that directs us to award first base when a batter is hit by a pitch (or the exception that directs us not to if the batter doesn't try to avoid) does not reference "HBP".

HBP has a very specific meaning - and it ONLY applies to a batter that is awarded 1st.

Fair enough, but I'm skeptical that Chapmaja was using it that way.