Live or Dead ball?

[Spine13]

So in our game yesterday we had our batter lay down a bunt. The catcher fielded the ball and tried to throw out our runner at 1st. The catcher hit the first baseman who was charging, in the mask. The ball roles foul near the first base fence but in play. Our girl runs to 2nd on the play and prob could have gotten 3rd. The umpire call a dead ball and returns my girl from 2nd to first. My question is: Should play have been stopped with a dead ball? And is so shouldn't my runner at least be awarded the base she would have gotten?

[BlueDevilRef]

What was the explanation on the field?

I see no reason to have called ball dead.

[jmkupka]

I'm guessing a single-umpire, local rules intramural game here...

It sounds, by your description, that the umpire judged the ball to have entered dead ball territory.

If so, the batter/runner should have been awarded 2nd base. Two bases from the time of the throw is the award when a ball leaves the field of play.

If not judged to have entered dead ball territory, it is play on...

If this is a local intramural league, there may be local rules for the younger players.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Spine13

So in our game yesterday we had our batter lay down a bunt. The catcher fielded the ball and tried to throw out our runner at 1st. The catcher hit the first baseman who was charging, in the mask. The ball roles foul near the first base fence but in play. Our girl runs to 2nd on the play and prob could have gotten 3rd. The umpire call a dead ball and returns my girl from 2nd to first. My question is: Should play have been stopped with a dead ball? And is so shouldn't my runner at least be awarded the base she would have gotten?

Not dead ball if in play , unless umpire thought an injury needed immediate attention.
If runner reached 2nd before the dead ball, must stay there or further.

Umpire jeopardy allows awarding 2nd or 3rd, based on umpire judgment of likely advance. The dead ball probably caused the defense to not retrieve the ball, so that timing would have to be part of the judgment.

[trojans2545]

Originally Posted by Spine13

Should play have been stopped with a dead ball?

Maybe? Thats the HTBT part. How severe was the injury if there was one? Anyone clearly knocked out? Blood pouring out of a wound? Visible teeth on the ground? Or were the players a little stunned, but still playing the game? I've had severe injuries where I have killed all play instantly and plays where its clear the players are a little hurt but in no need of immediate medical attention so I let them play until the offense stops running. (NCAA 6.10.1.3)

Originally Posted by Spine13

And is so shouldn't my runner at least be awarded the base she would have gotten?

No, you get the last base you have legally advanced to once the umpire kills it. Moving the girl back to first may have been much, but it depends entirely on when the umpire kills it. (NCAA 6.9.3, 6.9.3.1)

[CecilOne]

" local intramural league"

"NCAA 6.9.3, 6.9.3.1"

Hmmmm

[trojans2545]

Originally Posted by Spine13

So in our game yesterday we had our batter lay down a bunt. The catcher fielded the ball and tried to throw out our runner at 1st. The catcher hit the first baseman who was charging, in the mask. The ball roles foul near the first base fence but in play. Our girl runs to 2nd on the play and prob could have gotten 3rd. The umpire call a dead ball and returns my girl from 2nd to first. My question is: Should play have been stopped with a dead ball? And is so shouldn't my runner at least be awarded the base she would have gotten?

Originally Posted by CecilOne

" local intramural league"

"NCAA 6.9.3, 6.9.3.1"

Hmmmm

Using the book I have available next to me at the time

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by trojans2545

No, you get the last base you have legally advanced to once the umpire kills it. Moving the girl back to first may have been much, but it depends entirely on when the umpire kills it. (NCAA 6.9.3, 6.9.3.1)

Per these she gets whatever award she is entitled to get. Is there an NCAA rule that says she can be moved back to 1B?

[trojans2545]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Per these she gets whatever award she is entitled to get. Is there an NCAA rule that says she can be moved back to 1B?

That is not what the rule says. Per OP the ball is sitting in live territory near first base side fence when dead ball was ruled. The rule states that runners cannot advance during a dead ball unless there is a reason to advance them (catch and carry, home run, ball thrown out of play, etc). 12.12.6.4 provides that reason and puts it in the umpire's judgement as to what base(s) to award after play is suspended due to serious injury. If in their judgement 1B is all the runner would have attained then that is it.


Again, working with the book I have available to me, but OP hasn't stated what level of ball or rule set this is.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Spine13

So in our game yesterday we had our batter lay down a bunt. The catcher fielded the ball and tried to throw out our runner at 1st. The catcher hit the first baseman who was charging, in the mask. The ball roles foul near the first base fence but in play. Our girl runs to 2nd on the play and prob could have gotten 3rd. The umpire call a dead ball and returns my girl from 2nd to first. My question is: Should play have been stopped with a dead ball? And is so shouldn't my runner at least be awarded the base she would have gotten?

It really would help if the OP would return and answer some of the questions.

Assuming this was a youth or high school game, given the part I underlined, with the hyper-vigilance being emphasized these days regarding concussions, it is possible the umpire was applying the CDC guidelines, which say in part:

"Watch out for possible concussions.
► Use injury timeouts to ensure that an athlete
with a possible concussion is removed from
play. When in doubt, sit them out!"

Did anyone ask why the dead ball was called? Or, was it apparently to allow the coach to tend to his player and/or check for a concussion?

If that was the reason, the umpire was perhaps over-vigilant in killing the play in progress.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Spine13

So in our game yesterday we had our batter lay down a bunt. The catcher fielded the ball and tried to throw out our runner at 1st. The catcher hit the first baseman who was charging, in the mask. The ball roles foul near the first base fence but in play. Our girl runs to 2nd on the play and prob could have gotten 3rd. The umpire call a dead ball and returns my girl from 2nd to first. My question is: Should play have been stopped with a dead ball? And is so shouldn't my runner at least be awarded the base she would have gotten?

I see no reason to kill this play in the first place except 1) he thought it was out of play or 2) He was worried about a possible serious injury. In either case I can find zero justification for a return of the runner to first base.

I have killed plays a couple times this season for possible injury issues. The last was a ground ball that takes a bad hop into the throat of the SS. As soon as the runner got to first base I killed the play even though the ball was sitting on the grass just beyond the SS. Could the runners have advanced? It was possible, but at the same time, the 3b coach is sending her girl back to the base instead of trying to advance.

The other play was a bit of gamesmanship by the defender I think. Pop up on the infield and F4 and F6 collide and the ball is dropped. F6 lays motionless on the ground which causes the runner to stop at 1st base and the umpire to call time. She then pops up right after time is called. The opposing coach did not say anything, but if this was soccer a yellow card would have been issued. ?I really think she "played dead" attempting to bait the offense into a base running mistake.