sub

[RKBUmp]

Yes, the NFHS rule does state when noticed but every case play regarding unreported substitutes states when brought to the umpires attention by the offended coach, the offensive coach or the defensive coach. None of the case plays would indicate the umpire should rule on the infraction until brought to their attention by the other team.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Yes, the NFHS rule does state when noticed but every case play regarding unreported substitutes states when brought to the umpires attention by the offended coach, the offensive coach or the defensive coach. None of the case plays would indicate the umpire should rule on the infraction until brought to their attention by the other team.

The final case play only says brought to the attention of the umpire. It does not say by whom.

I personally have issued an unreported sub warning for a player I have witnessed in the game unreported.

The situation was as follows? #4 was the starting right fielder for the home team. In the third inning, the coach came up and indicated that #18 was going in for #4 in the batting order (her team was up, and #4/#18's spot was the leadoff batter). The coach also informed me that #4 would be going back in on defense. I made it clear to the coach she had to tell me when the actual substitution was made for #4 going back in (as I can not accept a projected substitution). During the defensive half of the inning, I look out and see #4 back in the outfield. I warned the team for an unreported substitute because 1) The coach had been informed I needed to be made aware of the substitution when #4 went back in for #18 and 2) It is within my rights as the plate umpire to rule on such circumstances because I noticed the player not properly reported.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

....

The situation was as follows? #4 was the starting right fielder for the home team. In the third inning, the coach came up and indicated that #18 was going in for #4 in the batting order (her team was up, and #4/#18's spot was the leadoff batter). The coach also informed me that #4 would be going back in on defense. I made it clear to the coach she had to tell me when the actual substitution was made for #4 going back in (as I can not accept a projected substitution). During the defensive half of the inning, I look out and see #4 back in the outfield. I warned the team for an unreported substitute because 1) The coach had been informed I needed to be made aware of the substitution when #4 went back in for #18 and 2) It is within my rights as the plate umpire to rule on such circumstances because I noticed the player not properly reported.

Yes...it is within your rights to issue a warning here, but in my opinion, this is the act of an OOO (over officious official) looking for boogers. Makes you appear to be looking for a "gotcha" call against this team.

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Now here is one for you guys. You have two outs and a running is caught stealing for the third out (during an at bat). Do you do anything in regards to the batter at bat. Personally I use preventative umpiring here as well. I will make sure everyone is on the same page as to who the leadoff batter is the next inning (the same girl that was in the box when the caught stealing occurred). If we then have an out of order issue, there is no confusion as to who should have been up.

I've got no problem with you doing this as long as you aren't obnoxious about it. I choose not to do this. It is not my job to track the batting order each time a batter comes up, only to rule on a batting out of order appeal.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

Yes...it is within your rights to issue a warning here, but in my opinion, this is the act of an OOO (over officious official) looking for boogers. Makes you appear to be looking for a "gotcha" call against this team.



I've got no problem with you doing this as long as you aren't obnoxious about it. I choose not to do this. It is not my job to track the batting order each time a batter comes up, only to rule on a batting out of order appeal.

Two years ago, I noticed an illegal re-entry that was unreported. I dealt with it and I do think it was my place to do so. Anyone disagree?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Two years ago, I noticed an illegal re-entry that was unreported. I dealt with it and I do think it was my place to do so. Anyone disagree?

What was the situation?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

What was the situation?

A starter, replaced, reentered, replaced, reentered a second time.
I recognized her because originally a pitcher and because I said "that's her reentry" to the coach the first time.
Might not have noticed right away if an outfielder.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

A starter, replaced, reentered, replaced, reentered a second time.
I recognized her because originally a pitcher and because I said "that's her reentry" to the coach the first time.
Might not have noticed right away if an outfielder.

That's what I was thinking....I still wouldn't have done anything on my own.
You now have an illegal substitute, which carries a heavier penalty that could be to the other team's advantage.

Let the other team bring it up when it is to their advantage. If they don't, then they weren't paying attention or chose not to appeal.

This all assumes the player was not reported, if the coach tries to report her back in the game, you are obviously not going to allow it.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Yes, the NFHS rule does state when noticed but every case play regarding unreported substitutes states when brought to the umpires attention by the offended coach, the offensive coach or the defensive coach. None of the case plays would indicate the umpire should rule on the infraction until brought to their attention by the other team.

Except one of them does say when brought to the attention of the umpire, but does not specify by whom the infraction was brought to the attention by.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Yes, the NFHS rule does state when noticed but every case play regarding unreported substitutes states when brought to the umpires attention by the offended coach, the offensive coach or the defensive coach. None of the case plays would indicate the umpire should rule on the infraction until brought to their attention by the other team.

Which OTHER violation of 3-6 would you wait until brought to your attention by an opposing coach?

Illegal equipment
Fake tag
Carelessly throwing bat
Hitting balls to players to warm up after the game has started
Out of the approved team areas
Using amplifiers or bullhorns
.........

Okay, the case plays all state the infractions are brought to the umpire's attention; does that mean that is the only way it might be noticed, or might it simply be the predominant play, and immaterial to the case play ruling??