unsportsmanlike act

[Blueplate]

Since the Hidden ball play seems legit...then give examples of play or plays in NFHS Softball that are not illegal,utilize no props, but .... employ deceitful tactics,baiting and are not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

Evidently these plays exist or there wouldn't be a rule against them.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

Since the Hidden ball play seems legit...then give examples of play or plays in NFHS Softball that are not illegal,utilize no props, but .... employ deceitful tactics,baiting and are not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

Evidently these plays exist or there wouldn't be a rule against them.

Off the top of my head, here are two plays that my state high school association has ruled as unsportsmanlike:

Play 1: With less than two outs and a runner on base, the BR is retired at first on a force play. The defense, in a planned manner, runs off the field as if it was the third out, including F3 rolling the ball into the circle. The runner on base, then tries to advance, only to have the defense ready with a player designated to be at the appropriate base and other one to pick up the ball.

Play 2: Runner on first steals on the pitch. The catcher, with no chance to throw her out, throws the ball high into the air in the area of F4, mimicking a pop fly. F4 then shouts "I've got it, I've got it" deceiving the runner into thinking the ball has been hit.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Off the top of my head, here are two plays that my state high school association has ruled as unsportsmanlike:

Play 1: With less than two outs and a runner on base, the BR is retired at first on a force play. The defense, in a planned manner, runs off the field as if it was the third out, including F3 rolling the ball into the circle. The runner on base, then tries to advance, only to have the defense ready with a player designated to be at the appropriate base and other one to pick up the ball.

Play 2: Runner on first steals on the pitch. The catcher, with no chance to throw her out, throws the ball high into the air in the area of F4, mimicking a pop fly. F4 then shouts "I've got it, I've got it" deceiving the runner into thinking the ball has been hit.

Play 2 has been around a long time in baseball. Legit there.

I'm thinking I'd find Play 1 OK too. The runner and basecoaches should know (need to know actually) the number of outs.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Play 2 has been around a long time in baseball. Legit there.

I'm thinking I'd find Play 1 OK too. The runner and basecoaches should know (need to know actually) the number of outs.

My opinion is not germane to the discussion; the state association rules these two plays as unsportsmanlike for softball (and, I would suppose, baseball as well, but I don't work baseball). That's what state associations do.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

My opinion is not germane to the discussion; the state association rules these two plays as unsportsmanlike for softball (and, I would suppose, baseball as well, but I don't work baseball). That's what state associations do.

But a PIAA ruling doesn't apply anywhere else so viewers shouldn't take is as gospel.

[jmkupka]

This weekend...

With R1 on 3B, had F1 & F2 walking together back into the circle, chatting it up (time out was not requested).

If R1 decided to break for home while they were halfway to the circle, and they got the out, I'd've had no problem... good play, dumb move runner.

If R1 stepped off the base once they were in the circle, and DC immediately went nuts wanting an out (which is what I was expecting), he'd be out of luck. I wouldn't have let that happen.


Long story short, R1 didn't move. My partner behind the plate advised F2 (when she returned) to ask for time next time. I didn't hear her reply...

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

But a PIAA ruling doesn't apply anywhere else so viewers shouldn't take is as gospel.

You are correct. The OP asked if there was rulings, I gave examples of what is not allowed in PIAA. Other state associations have ruled in similar manners or different manners.

My point wasn't to say these play are unsportsmanlike, and I didn't render an opinion either way. My point was that PIAA has said these are not in the spirit of sportsmanship and are not allowed in PIAA contests. They do not speak for other NFHS associations.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Off the top of my head, here are two plays that my state high school association has ruled as unsportsmanlike:

Play 1: With less than two outs and a runner on base, the BR is retired at first on a force play. The defense, in a planned manner, runs off the field as if it was the third out, including F3 rolling the ball into the circle. The runner on base, then tries to advance, only to have the defense ready with a player designated to be at the appropriate base and other one to pick up the ball.

Play 2: Runner on first steals on the pitch. The catcher, with no chance to throw her out, throws the ball high into the air in the area of F4, mimicking a pop fly. F4 then shouts "I've got it, I've got it" deceiving the runner into thinking the ball has been hit.

I respect your expertise and absorb your comments in general; but if that is a PIAA ruling, I am skeptical if that applies to the rest of the world. PIAA has some unusual viewpoints on things.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Off the top of my head, here are two plays that my state high school association has ruled as unsportsmanlike:

Play 1: With less than two outs and a runner on base, the BR is retired at first on a force play. The defense, in a planned manner, runs off the field as if it was the third out, including F3 rolling the ball into the circle. The runner on base, then tries to advance, only to have the defense ready with a player designated to be at the appropriate base and other one to pick up the ball.

Play 2: Runner on first steals on the pitch. The catcher, with no chance to throw her out, throws the ball high into the air in the area of F4, mimicking a pop fly. F4 then shouts "I've got it, I've got it" deceiving the runner into thinking the ball has been hit.

Two great plays that are no more unsportsmanlike than wearing metal cleats/spikes. Just another "Pissed off coach whose team got caught off guard" rule that administrative personnel are duped into enacting.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Off the top of my head, here are two plays that my state high school association has ruled as unsportsmanlike:

Play 1: With less than two outs and a runner on base, the BR is retired at first on a force play. The defense, in a planned manner, runs off the field as if it was the third out, including F3 rolling the ball into the circle. The runner on base, then tries to advance, only to have the defense ready with a player designated to be at the appropriate base and other one to pick up the ball.

Play 2: Runner on first steals on the pitch. The catcher, with no chance to throw her out, throws the ball high into the air in the area of F4, mimicking a pop fly. F4 then shouts "I've got it, I've got it" deceiving the runner into thinking the ball has been hit.

I would say play 1 is not illegal. Play 2 on the other hand is verbal obstruction. You are deceiving / impeding the runner by the use of a voice command. Had the ball just been thrown into the air, that's on the runner not knowing what is going on. If they use the I've got it type phrase, now the defense is using a communication to confuse / deceive the offense.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Off the top of my head, here are two plays that my state high school association has ruled as unsportsmanlike:

Play 1: With less than two outs and a runner on base, the BR is retired at first on a force play. The defense, in a planned manner, runs off the field as if it was the third out, including F3 rolling the ball into the circle. The runner on base, then tries to advance, only to have the defense ready with a player designated to be at the appropriate base and other one to pick up the ball...

If this play works, I suppose the PIAA would have you rule dead ball, return the runner, and some type of warning and/or ejection?

OK, but what if the play does not work and the runner scores? Is it still ruled unsportsmanlike, and the runner returned?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If this play works, I suppose the PIAA would have you rule dead ball, return the runner, and some type of warning and/or ejection?

OK, but what if the play does not work and the runner scores? Is it still ruled unsportsmanlike, and the runner returned?

Very good question, and I'm not really sure how to answer. Trick plays were en vogue a few years ago, but not so much now. It has been awhile since they were discussed, I would say about 5 years.

I'm certain of the warning, but not so much on "letting it play out."

[jmkupka]

Can't see how we couldn't let it play out... we know there's not 3 outs, runner knows there's not 3 outs, and what DC would ever complain that their trick play (that blew up in their face) should be retracted?

[tcannizzo]

Here's one.
R1 on 1B steals on pitch, with no throw from F2, except back to F1.
F6 tells R1 that it was a foul ball causing R1 to leave the base.
The pitch was not fouled.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

Since the Hidden ball play seems legit...then give examples of play or plays in NFHS Softball that are not illegal,utilize no props, but .... employ deceitful tactics,baiting and are not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

Evidently these plays exist or there wouldn't be a rule against them.

Blue Plate:

I don't understand why you think that the Hidden Ball Play "seems" legit. It has been legit since the dawn of baseball (yes, I know "Dear Readers" that this is the Softball Forum). Just go with it.

MTD, Sr.