Unsportsmanlike?

[canuckrefguy]

Did a couple games at a tournament and stuck around to watch the game after....here's what I saw...

Team A, a large-school team, is up by 25 on a small school team from another district. They start the second half with that trick play where they all start at the wrong end and flush two guys on a fast break....one alley-oops to the other for a two-hand jam. Bench erupts, parents in stands erupt screaming and high-fiving. Team B, already having a tough game, now thoroughly humiliated, wind up losing by 60.

I thought it was flat-out sh*tty, unsportsmanlike, disgraceful behaviour by Team A.

Only saving grace is that same team got b*tch-slapped in the next round by the team that went on to win the tournament.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Only saving grace is that same team got b*tch-slapped in the next round by the team that went on to win the tournament.

And justice for all.

[eyezen]

Karma is an interesting phenomenon isn't it?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by eyezen
Karma is an interesting phenomenon isn't it?

Too bad it doesn't "work" more often...

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Did a couple games at a tournament and stuck around to watch the game after....here's what I saw...

Team A, a large-school team, is up by 25 on a small school team from another district. They start the second half with that trick play where they all start at the wrong end and flush two guys on a fast break....one alley-oops to the other for a two-hand jam. Bench erupts, parents in stands erupt screaming and high-fiving. Team B, already having a tough game, now thoroughly humiliated, wind up losing by 60.

I thought it was flat-out sh*tty, unsportsmanlike, disgraceful behaviour by Team A.

Only saving grace is that same team got b*tch-slapped in the next round by the team that went on to win the tournament.

Sounds like this could have been prevent by following the correct procedure.

Officials manual page 30 #217:
"The alternating-possession throw-in to start the second, third, and fourth quarters shall be administered by the Referee at the division line opposite the table. Indicate color and direction, designate the throw-in spot, sound the whistle to alert players that play is about to begin, and place the ball at the thrower's disposal. ..."

If the Referee does that no team will fall for this trick.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
[/B]

Sounds like this could have been prevent by following the correct procedure.

Officials manual page 30 #217:
"The alternating-possession throw-in to start the second, third, and fourth quarters shall be administered by the Referee at the division line opposite the table. Indicate color and direction, designate the throw-in spot, sound the whistle to alert players that play is about to begin, and place the ball at the thrower's disposal. ..."

If the Referee does that no team will fall for this trick. [/B][/QUOTE]You don't wanna believe that, Nevada. You've certainly been at this long enough that you should know by now that none of the players out there is listening or paying attention to us when you do that anyway. You could hold up a sign and it still wouldn't register.

Come to think of it, we do hold up a sign....the AP.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 11th, 2005 at 07:02 AM]

[JRutledge]

With all due respect, there is nothing wrong with what that team did. They have a right to play as if the game is on the line. I have seen 25 points vanish in HS games often under the right circumstances. Size of the school does not matter either in these kinds of situations.

Also, if the small school was so dumb to fall for that trick, then that is there fault. I would expect coaches, players and even fans at some point to realize that you switch sides at half time. Hell many of the times the teams are out on the floor and warm up at the proper basket. If they fell asleep at the wheel on this play that might have more to do with why they were losing by 25 at half than talent.

I also agree with JR that they teams usually do not pay attention to us, but I have been asked a lot "which way are we going ref?" I will tell them even when I know a team is trying to pull this trick when asked. If they do not ask, I will point in the direction we are going, after that it is up to the teams to pay attention. I am not going to hold their hand so they know. I have had teams after pointing the proper direction still try to go the wrong way after the ball has been put that the disposal of their team.

I think sometimes we forget that we are still officiating a contest where the smartest, the more talented teams are going to win. It might have been humiliating for that team, but they are partly responsible for that humiliation.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge
With all due respect, there is nothing wrong with what that team did. They have a right to play as if the game is on the line.

Agree with that. What we personally like or don't like should never be a factor in the way we officiate. Just call what happens and call it the same at the other end.

Originally posted by JRutledge
With all due respect, there is nothing wrong with what that team did. They have a right to play as if the game is on the line. I have seen 25 points vanish in HS games often under the right circumstances. Size of the school does not matter either in these kinds of situations.

Also, if the small school was so dumb to fall for that trick, then that is there fault. I would expect coaches, players and even fans at some point to realize that you switch sides at half time. Hell many of the times the teams are out on the floor and warm up at the proper basket. If they fell asleep at the wheel on this play that might have more to do with why they were losing by 25 at half than talent.

I also agree with JR that they teams usually do not pay attention to us, but I have been asked a lot "which way are we going ref?" I will tell them even when I know a team is trying to pull this trick when asked. If they do not ask, I will point in the direction we are going, after that it is up to the teams to pay attention. I am not going to hold their hand so they know. I have had teams after pointing the proper direction still try to go the wrong way after the ball has been put that the disposal of their team.

I think sometimes we forget that we are still officiating a contest where the smartest, the more talented teams are going to win. It might have been humiliating for that team, but they are partly responsible for that humiliation.

Peace

I believe it was Joe Pa or bobby Bowden who coined the phrase "its not my job to keep the score down, its yours" however, at some point it is blatantly obvious when one team has another thoroughly outclassed and there comes a point where its time to call of the dogs. You reference that you have seen 25 points vanish, but based on the way this one turned out, this was one of those classic mismatches. I had one like this a few weeks ago in a girls game where the coach was up by 30, continued to press even though it was obvious the other team lacked the ballhandling skills to break it, and beat them by 50 or so. To make matters worse, he continued to moan for every travel or foul commited by the other team. I wanted so badly to tell him what an embarrassment he was.

Good coaches teach kids a lot more than basketball. These are the opportunities to show and teach a little class. This coach seems to have missed this opportunity. Maybe after the a** whipping he got in the next round, he'll show some the next time this opportunity presents itself.

[26 Year Gap]

Back when my brother-in-law was playing for a small western NY HS, they had a holiday tournament matchup with a strong catholic school from Rochester. A guy named Roosevelt Bouie was on the opponents squad. He ended up on a division I NCAA scholarship at some school in the east. My brother-in-law's team was getting pounded and they went into the locker room at halftime quite demoralized. When they came back to the court for the second half, there was Roosevelt Bouie, in the stands, in street clothes.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by MPLAHE

I believe it was Joe Pa or bobby Bowden who coined the phrase "its not my job to keep the score down, its yours" however, at some point it is blatantly obvious when one team has another thoroughly outclassed and there comes a point where its time to call of the dogs. You reference that you have seen 25 points vanish, but based on the way this one turned out, this was one of those classic mismatches. I had one like this a few weeks ago in a girls game where the coach was up by 30, continued to press even though it was obvious the other team lacked the ballhandling skills to break it, and beat them by 50 or so. To make matters worse, he continued to moan for every travel or foul commited by the other team. I wanted so badly to tell him what an embarrassment he was.

Good coaches teach kids a lot more than basketball. These are the opportunities to show and teach a little class. This coach seems to have missed this opportunity. Maybe after the a** whipping he got in the next round, he'll show some the next time this opportunity presents itself.

We all have a right to our opinion. I just do not see anything wrong with a trick play to start the second half with at least 16 minutes to go in the game. If they had a 25 point lead, they could lose that 25 point lead too in the next 16 minutes. I think sometimes we get caught up in "what it all means" than just understanding that this is a game and the object is to win in any competition. I agree you should do it with class, but running a play that might have some trickery element to it is not unsportsmanlike or classless at that point of the game. If you are fooled by this play you disserve to lose.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I just do not see anything wrong with a trick play to start the second half with at least 16 minutes to go in the game. If they had a 25 point lead, they could lose that 25 point lead too in the next 16 minutes.

OMIGOD! I actually agree with Rut.

Look - there's some pigs flying past my window and I just heard the weather report from hell - freezing temperatures!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
just heard the weather report from hell - freezing temperatures!

Be careful... if that is true, the Leafs will win the Cup!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Be careful... if that is true, the Leafs will win the Cup!

Only in a world of black & white and a 6 team NHL.