Lineup issues, quick pitch, and a D3K call.

[chapmaja]

Had these three issues come up while I was on the bases Friday night, again HS JV game.

First play I was simply told about by my PU in between games. The home teams comes out for the top half of an inning (3rd I think), and has a different pitcher pitching. The PU goes over and tells the home coach that he needs to report changes in the pitchers position. The switch was moving the CF to pitcher, previous pitcher to 1b, and previous 1b to CF. I know the home coach argued this with the PU, but I was in my position and did not feel the need to enter the discussion.

In HS ball, the position changes are not required to be reported to the umpire are they? I could not find a reference to the requirement to list position changes, only changes to the lineup. Am I wrong? I know it is much easier to have a coach report changes to the pitcher or catcher for CR purposes, but is it required. I think NCAA requires all position changes to be reported, but not NFHS.

Second situation, D3K. Ball gets away from the catcher some, but she goes picks it up and throws to first. F3 is standing trying to catch the throw while standing in the base path (on the foul line). The throw does not touch the runner coming in, and arrives to F3 before the runner arrives, but F3 drops the ball. A collision ensues with both players on the ground. Since this was the leadoff batter, I am positioned near 1st base. I call obstruction on the play since F3 did not have the ball. Both players are shaken up. As the coaches are coming out to check on their players, my PU comes up and tells me he has interference on the B-R because she was inside the foul line, not in the 3 foot running lane. Who has this call, and given the fact the throw did not touch the B-R, and simply was not a caught ball by F3, do we still have interference? I deferred to my partner on this call, and we went on with the game (my to the OC's displeasure about the call).

The third situation was later in the same game, again with me on the bases. The pitcher for the home team had established her position on the pitchers plate almost immediately after getting the ball back from the catcher. The batter had stepped out and was getting a sign from the 3B coach. The batter stepped in and before she was set in the box, the pitch was on it's way. My plate umpire ruled no pitch and instructed the pitcher to wait until the batter was set. The coach for the pitching team was arguing that the PU needed to keep his hand up to prevent the pitcher from pitching (not that it had stopped the pitcher in question previously in the game). The PU indicated that he did not have to put his hand up and the pitcher was responsible for not throwing the pitch until the batter was ready. What is the correct rule on this? My impression is that nothing in the rule prohibits a pitcher from pitching the ball while the batter is in the box, but at the same time, if the batter is not ready, the umpire should hold up the don't pitch sign to the pitcher.

That situation was further complicated by the fact that one assistant coach (possibly Varsity coach) decided he wanted his opinion to be heard from the dugout as well. That was quickly shut down by the plate umpire who very quickly made it clear that comments from the dugout were not tolerated. On this play I was again position with nobody on, but I did walk in about halfway down the first base line in order to hear everything that was being said, in case an officials report were to be needed for an ejection.

[RKBUmp]

There is no requirement in NFHS to report defensive position changes.

The 3' running lane has absolutely no bearing on your play. It only has to do with the fielders ability to receive the throw. Once she received it and dropped the ball she was guilty of obstruction if she hindered the batter/runner from reaching 1st.

It doesnt matter if the umpire has their hand up or not on a quick pitch. If the pitcher throws the ball before the batter is set it is a quick pitch. When a pitcher suddenly does it out of the blue sometimes you dont have time to get your hand up.

[josephrt1]

I tend to call more No Pitches than most because of line B. The 1st response I get from the DC is "her feet are in the box". It takes more than her feet in the box. The ASA rule is below. The "off-balance" part is important. If the batter is not ready, pitcher can't pitch. if batter is taking too long it is my responsibility to address that issue, not let pitcher chuck it in. And batter or umpire do not have to ask for time. It is pitcher's requirement to wait.

Only once have i had to warn about unsportsmanlike conduct because pitcher continued to quick pitch. Other times it pretty much stops have I ask them to allow the batter to get ready. (I was doing a 12U travel game last year and after I called a No-Pitch, the coach came to me between innings and asked if that was a local rule for the safety of 12U kids. She said she coaches college and they don't have that rule. I told her I had the NCAA rule book on my phone and I could show her where they have the exact same requirement!)

Rule 6

SECTION 10 – NO PITCH
No pitch shall be declared.
A. When the pitcher pitches during the suspension of play
B. When the pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken a position in the batter’s box or when the batter is off balance.
(also lines C, D & E)

Effect – Section 10A-E: dead ball. All subsequent action on that pitch is cancelled.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The home teams comes out for the top half of an inning (3rd I think), and has a different pitcher pitching. The PU goes over and tells the home coach that he needs to report changes in the pitchers position. The switch was moving the CF to pitcher, previous pitcher to 1b, and previous 1b to CF. I know the home coach argued this with the PU, but I was in my position and did not feel the need to enter the discussion.

In HS ball, the position changes are not required to be reported to the umpire are they? I could not find a reference to the requirement to list position changes, only changes to the lineup. Am I wrong? I know it is much easier to have a coach report changes to the pitcher or catcher for CR purposes, but is it required. I think NCAA requires all position changes to be reported, but not NFHS.

Not a rule requirement, but maybe it should be.
A question I have had is what to do if the pitcher was changed, not reported or noted at the time. Then the team wants a CR for the new pitcher, and the ump realizes it was the new one pitching, but not reported.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Not a rule requirement, but maybe it should be.
A question I have had is what to do if the pitcher was changed, not reported or noted at the time. Then the team wants a CR for the new pitcher, and the ump realizes it was the new one pitching, but not reported.

I had this exact same thing come up in a game about two weeks ago.

Top of the inning and right before we start in I notice that a different pitcher is out there. Hey, all of these kids look alike and they're all wearing the same uniform, to boot! I'm surprised that I even noticed.

I went straight over to the bench and asked if there has been a pitching change. No, there's no rule about reporting positional changes (F6 had swapped with F1), but in my mind I need to know about the pitcher for courtesy runner purposes.

Coach immediately gets all defensive and starts going on about how it's a positional change and he doesn't need to report it and no other umpire has ever told him that...blah, blah, blah...

I just told him that there was no penalty involved if they didn't inform me, and I wanted to make note of the pitcher whether he told me or I noticed it myself, in which case I want to confirm its a new pitcher and that's all I was doing now. I told him that if it doesn't get recorded, then they ask for a courtesy runner, the pitcher of record would be the last pitcher I had on my line-up card.

I don't know if there's any backing for that, but it seemed like preventive umpiring at the time.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

I tend to call more No Pitches than most because of line B. The 1st response I get form the DC is "her feet are in the box". It takes more than her feet in the box. The ASA rule is below. The "off-balance" part is important. If the batter is not ready, pitcher can't pitch. if batter is taken too long it is my responsibility to address that issue, not let pitcher chuck it in. And batter or umpire do not have to ask for time. It is pitcher's requirement to wait.

Only once have i had to warn about unsportsmanlike conduct because pitcher continued to quick pitch. Other times it pretty much stops have I ask them to allow the batter to get ready. (I was doing a 12U travel game last year and after I called a No-Pitch, the coach came to me between innings and asked if that was a local rule for the safety of 12U kids. She said she coaches college and they don't have that rule. I told her I had the NCAA rule book on my phone and I could show her where they have the exact same requirement!)

Rule 6

SECTION 10 – NO PITCH
No pitch shall be declared.
A. When the pitcher pitches during the suspension of play
B. When the pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken a position in the batter’s box or when the batter is off balance.
(also lines C, D & E)

Effect – Section 10A-E: dead ball. All subsequent action on that pitch is cancelled.

That's great for ASA, but am I missing something in the HS rules? This was a HS JV game, so NFHS rules were in play. Is there a specific rule reference I missed in the NFHS rules regarding this?

[josephrt1]

I'm not doing HS this year but I doubt this has changed. In the 2015 HS Softball Rules Book, see page 54, Rule 6-4, Art 9. line c. No pitch shall be declared when: the pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter is in his or her position or is off balance as a result of the previous pitch.

Pretty much the same wording as ASA and also college.

[Andy]

In a HS game, if I notice a new pitcher in the circle as a result of a defensive position switch and it has not been reported, I change it on my lineup card. I don't see a need to confirm it with a coach or ask anybody about it. If I don't notice the switch and a courtesy runner is requested later in the game for a player I do not have listed on my lineup card as F1 or F2, I don't allow the CR.

As a side note, I usually include a line in my pregame something like, "Please report all substitutions to me, if you switch your pitcher or catcher, please let me know in case you would like to use a courtesy runner."