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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 07:43pm
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Courtesy runner in ITB

NFHS...
..."The pitcher or catcher must bat and reach base legally...or...earn their way on base..in order to be eligible for a courtesy runner.."

How is "earned" defined?

ITB..
Runner placed on 2nd is the catcher of record...Can she have a courtesy runner? Obviously she didn't bat...
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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 07:53pm
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Yes. She is offered the courtesy in attempt to avoid injury and to speed up game in getting her gear on. I would just announce the CR after verifying the catcher was the last out of the previous inning.
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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 09:34pm
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First of all NFHS does not have a tie breaker rule. It does have the option of State adoption of one (4-2-6). Here we use the ASA tie breaker rule that states that a substitute may be inserted for the runner (ASA RS #54). In our case no, she can't have a courtesy runner as she did not earn her way on base. She was put there by rule to help score runs and get the game over. Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat. Also read (ASA 8-10-A1) Which states that a courtesy runner can be used for the pitcher and/or the catcher providing the pitcher or catcher bats for themselves and reaches base safely.

Last edited by Ed Maeder; Sat Apr 23, 2016 at 09:55pm.
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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 09:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Maeder View Post
First of all NFHS does not have a tie breaker rule. It does have the option of State adoption of one (4-2-6). Here we use the ASA tie breaker rule that states that a substitute may be inserted for the runner (ASA RS #54). In our case no, she can't have a courtesy runner as she did not earn her way on base. She was put there by rule to help score runs and get the game over. Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat. Also read (ASA 8-10-A1)

What page in the 2016 ASA Rules Book is RS #54?

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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 09:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Maeder View Post
First of all NFHS does not have a tie breaker rule. It does have the option of State adoption of one (4-2-6). Here we use the ASA tie breaker rule that states that a substitute may be inserted for the runner (ASA RS #54). In our case no, she can't have a courtesy runner as she did not earn her way on base. She was put there by rule to help score runs and get the game over. Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat.
Sorry, no. That is incorrect, violates an approved ruling in both ASA and NFHS, and is the extension of a myth that is an incorrect application.

Every person in the lineup earns their way to be the tiebreaker runner in the exact same way; by being the listed last (9th) batter in any tie-break inning. It doesn't matter what position they play; they earn that right by being the last batter; or the person listed above the first batter to bat in that inning. If that person is the pitcher or catcher for the last out in the prior half inning, she is eligible for a courtesy runner.

The rule cited above exists to keep the DP, who is playing offense for the FLEX pitcher or catcher, from being subbed for by that player, and THEN thinking they can get a courtesy runner by the sub. NOT what was asked in this thread.
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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 10:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark t. Denucci, sr. View Post
what page in the 2016 asa rules book is rs #54?

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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 10:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Sorry, no. That is incorrect, violates an approved ruling in both ASA and NFHS, and is the extension of a myth that is an incorrect application.

Every person in the lineup earns their way to be the tiebreaker runner in the exact same way; by being the listed last (9th) batter in any tie-break inning. It doesn't matter what position they play; they earn that right by being the last batter; or the person listed above the first batter to bat in that inning. If that person is the pitcher or catcher for the last out in the prior half inning, she is eligible for a courtesy runner.

The rule cited above exists to keep the DP, who is playing offense for the FLEX pitcher or catcher, from being subbed for by that player, and THEN thinking they can get a courtesy runner by the sub. NOT what was asked in this thread.
I appreciate your experience, but could you please show me the approved ruling in NFHS and ASA.
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 06:28am
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From the May 2014 ASA plays and clarifications.

Play: In the top of the 8th inning, F2, who was the last batter to complete their turn at bat, is placed on 2B. The offense wants to put a Courtesy Runner in to run for F2. The umpires do not allow this because F2 did not bat and reach base safely.
Ruling: The umpires should have allowed F2 to have a Courtesy Runner. As long as F1 and/or F2 batted for themselves in the inning prior to the tie breaker and were the last to complete their turn at bat, they have earned the right to be put on 2B, therefore they can have a Courtesy Runner. Rule 8 Section 10A
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 09:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Maeder View Post
I appreciate your experience, but could you please show me the approved ruling in NFHS and ASA.
Can you show where it is not approved?
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 01:39pm
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Thanks a lot guys. I stand corrected. It was in the ASA plays and clarifications in April 2014. I will not make that mistake again. This is why I use this site to learn and progress.
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 01:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Can you show where it is not approved?
I thought I had.
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 04:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Maeder View Post
Thanks a lot guys. I stand corrected. It was in the ASA plays and clarifications in April 2014. I will not make that mistake again. This is why I use this site to learn and progress.
No problem. None of us is infallible, so you have every right to ask us to justify the answer when it conflicts with what you think you know.
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 04:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Maeder View Post
I thought I had.
But your citation does not state that a pitcher or catcher cannot have a CR as the runner placed on 2nd base for the tie breaker. I was under the impression that was the question in the OP
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 06:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Maeder View Post
...Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat....
Well, she DID reach base by the actions of her time at bat... it just took an intervening half inning for her to get there!
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Old Mon Apr 25, 2016, 08:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef View Post
the last out of the previous inning.
No, the batter scheduled to bat last in this inning.
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