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-   -   Courtesy runner in ITB (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/101278-courtesy-runner-itb.html)

Blueplate Sat Apr 23, 2016 07:43pm

Courtesy runner in ITB
 
NFHS...
..."The pitcher or catcher must bat and reach base legally...or...earn their way on base..in order to be eligible for a courtesy runner.."

How is "earned" defined?

ITB..
Runner placed on 2nd is the catcher of record...Can she have a courtesy runner? Obviously she didn't bat...

BlueDevilRef Sat Apr 23, 2016 07:53pm

Yes. She is offered the courtesy in attempt to avoid injury and to speed up game in getting her gear on. I would just announce the CR after verifying the catcher was the last out of the previous inning.

Ed Maeder Sat Apr 23, 2016 09:34pm

First of all NFHS does not have a tie breaker rule. It does have the option of State adoption of one (4-2-6). Here we use the ASA tie breaker rule that states that a substitute may be inserted for the runner (ASA RS #54). In our case no, she can't have a courtesy runner as she did not earn her way on base. She was put there by rule to help score runs and get the game over. Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat. Also read (ASA 8-10-A1) Which states that a courtesy runner can be used for the pitcher and/or the catcher providing the pitcher or catcher bats for themselves and reaches base safely.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sat Apr 23, 2016 09:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder (Post 986653)
First of all NFHS does not have a tie breaker rule. It does have the option of State adoption of one (4-2-6). Here we use the ASA tie breaker rule that states that a substitute may be inserted for the runner (ASA RS #54). In our case no, she can't have a courtesy runner as she did not earn her way on base. She was put there by rule to help score runs and get the game over. Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat. Also read (ASA 8-10-A1)


What page in the 2016 ASA Rules Book is RS #54?

MTD, Sr.

AtlUmpSteve Sat Apr 23, 2016 09:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder (Post 986653)
First of all NFHS does not have a tie breaker rule. It does have the option of State adoption of one (4-2-6). Here we use the ASA tie breaker rule that states that a substitute may be inserted for the runner (ASA RS #54). In our case no, she can't have a courtesy runner as she did not earn her way on base. She was put there by rule to help score runs and get the game over. Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat.

Sorry, no. That is incorrect, violates an approved ruling in both ASA and NFHS, and is the extension of a myth that is an incorrect application.

Every person in the lineup earns their way to be the tiebreaker runner in the exact same way; by being the listed last (9th) batter in any tie-break inning. It doesn't matter what position they play; they earn that right by being the last batter; or the person listed above the first batter to bat in that inning. If that person is the pitcher or catcher for the last out in the prior half inning, she is eligible for a courtesy runner.

The rule cited above exists to keep the DP, who is playing offense for the FLEX pitcher or catcher, from being subbed for by that player, and THEN thinking they can get a courtesy runner by the sub. NOT what was asked in this thread.

Ed Maeder Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark t. Denucci, sr. (Post 986654)
what page in the 2016 asa rules book is rs #54?

Mtd, sr.

152

Ed Maeder Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 986655)
Sorry, no. That is incorrect, violates an approved ruling in both ASA and NFHS, and is the extension of a myth that is an incorrect application.

Every person in the lineup earns their way to be the tiebreaker runner in the exact same way; by being the listed last (9th) batter in any tie-break inning. It doesn't matter what position they play; they earn that right by being the last batter; or the person listed above the first batter to bat in that inning. If that person is the pitcher or catcher for the last out in the prior half inning, she is eligible for a courtesy runner.

The rule cited above exists to keep the DP, who is playing offense for the FLEX pitcher or catcher, from being subbed for by that player, and THEN thinking they can get a courtesy runner by the sub. NOT what was asked in this thread.

I appreciate your experience, but could you please show me the approved ruling in NFHS and ASA.

RKBUmp Sun Apr 24, 2016 06:28am

From the May 2014 ASA plays and clarifications.

Play: In the top of the 8th inning, F2, who was the last batter to complete their turn at bat, is placed on 2B. The offense wants to put a Courtesy Runner in to run for F2. The umpires do not allow this because F2 did not bat and reach base safely.
Ruling: The umpires should have allowed F2 to have a Courtesy Runner. As long as F1 and/or F2 batted for themselves in the inning prior to the tie breaker and were the last to complete their turn at bat, they have earned the right to be put on 2B, therefore they can have a Courtesy Runner. Rule 8 Section 10A

IRISHMAFIA Sun Apr 24, 2016 09:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder (Post 986657)
I appreciate your experience, but could you please show me the approved ruling in NFHS and ASA.

Can you show where it is not approved? :)

Ed Maeder Sun Apr 24, 2016 01:39pm

Thanks a lot guys. I stand corrected. It was in the ASA plays and clarifications in April 2014. I will not make that mistake again. This is why I use this site to learn and progress.

Ed Maeder Sun Apr 24, 2016 01:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 986673)
Can you show where it is not approved? :)

I thought I had.

AtlUmpSteve Sun Apr 24, 2016 04:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder (Post 986682)
Thanks a lot guys. I stand corrected. It was in the ASA plays and clarifications in April 2014. I will not make that mistake again. This is why I use this site to learn and progress.

No problem. None of us is infallible, so you have every right to ask us to justify the answer when it conflicts with what you think you know.

IRISHMAFIA Sun Apr 24, 2016 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder (Post 986684)
I thought I had.

But your citation does not state that a pitcher or catcher cannot have a CR as the runner placed on 2nd base for the tie breaker. I was under the impression that was the question in the OP

Dakota Sun Apr 24, 2016 06:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder (Post 986653)
...Earning her way on base simply means she would have to bat and reach base by the actions of her time at bat....

Well, she DID reach base by the actions of her time at bat... it just took an intervening half inning for her to get there! ;)

CecilOne Mon Apr 25, 2016 08:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 986651)
the last out of the previous inning.

No, the batter scheduled to bat last in this inning.


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