Bases Loaded Walk Ends Game (or does it?)

[BretMan]

I'm looking for an NFHS reference, but would also be interested in the ruling for others.

Bottom of the seventh, tie score, bases loaded, two outs. Batter receives ball four. All base runners advance to the next base. But the batter-runner goes about halfway to first and then...

Of course, if she goes into the dugout she's out and no run scores. But what if she stops and comes directly back toward the plate area, lining up to shake hands since the winning run has apparently scored and the game is apparently over.

Does this become an appeal situation for the defense, or is this a situation where the umpire can automatically call her out? What rule or interpretation would cover this?

[BlueDevilRef]

All bases must be touched legally and this would be an appeal situation. Must be appealed before defense leaves the field. Not sure what rule this is but someone with a book handy will post it I'm sure.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I'm looking for an NFHS reference, but would also be interested in the ruling for others.

Bottom of the seventh, tie score, bases loaded, two outs. Batter receives ball four. All base runners advance to the next base. But the batter-runner goes about halfway to first and then...

Of course, if she goes into the dugout she's out and no run scores. But what if she stops and comes directly back toward the plate area, lining up to shake hands since the winning run has apparently scored and the game is apparently over.

Does this become an appeal situation for the defense, or is this a situation where the umpire can automatically call her out? What rule or interpretation would cover this?

BR is awarded 1st base. Is there a secret time frame in which s/he must reach 1st base? Is s/he out for backing away from 1B? Has s/he been assisted by anyone in advancing to 1B?

If the answer to these questions is "no", then my partner and I am headed toward the parking lot. The way I'm reading 4.2.1, the game is over at the point the winning run scores. Maybe that could be stated better, but that's what it reads.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

BR is awarded 1st base. Is there a secret time frame in which s/he must reach 1st base? Is s/he out for backing away from 1B? Has s/he been assisted by anyone in advancing to 1B?

If the answer to these questions is "no", then my partner and I am headed toward the parking lot. The way I'm reading 4.2.1, the game is over at the point the winning run scores. Maybe that could be stated better, but that's what it reads.

This seems right, but could a crafty coach turn this into an appealable situation? What if the coach wants to appeal that she was BOO? At some point you have to call time to do so and if when you do the BR has not gone to first...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

This seems right, but could a crafty coach turn this into an appealable situation? What if the coach wants to appeal that she was BOO? At some point you have to call time to do so and if when you do the BR has not gone to first...

Why would you call time with "active" runners?

[Crabby_Bob]

This play may be appealed. Casebook 9-1-1 situation N.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Why would you call time with "active" runners?

How else are you going to handle it? Irish wants me to leave the field. The coach wants to appeal BOO. The BR is standing next to home plate celebrating. Is this like a ball everybody else thinks is fair where we're going to stand there waiting for the girl to either run to first or head into the dugout and do nothing?

[josephrt1]

In ASA, isn't this a straight-up OUT. No appeal required. Ump has to call the out. Rule 8, Section 2, item D.

Rule 8, SECTION 2 – THE BATTER-RUNNER IS OUT..........

D. When a batter-runner fails to advance to first base and enters the team area after:
1. A batted fair ball.
2. (Fast Pitch or Slow Pitch with Stealing) A base on balls.
3. A dropped third strike.
4. Catcher Obstruction
Exception: (Slow Pitch) ……………………..

I would guess there will be some (maybe a lot) debate about "enters the team area" which she did not do, but she clearly failed to advance to first base and demonstrated she had no intention of ever doing so..

[youngump]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

In ASA, isn't this a straight-up OUT. No appeal required. Ump has to call the out. Rule 8, Section 2, item D.

Rule 8, SECTION 2 – THE BATTER-RUNNER IS OUT..........

D. When a batter-runner fails to advance to first base and enters the team area after:
1. A batted fair ball.
2. (Fast Pitch or Slow Pitch with Stealing) A base on balls.
3. A dropped third strike.
4. Catcher Obstruction
Exception: (Slow Pitch) ……………………..

I would guess there will be some (maybe a lot) debate about "enters the team area" which she did not do, but she clearly failed to advance to first base and demonstrated she had no intention of ever doing so..

Of course she was going to. She just wanted to celebrate first. There's no rule about how fast she has to get to 1st Base is there? And this rule is very clear, to be out she needs to do both: Fail to advance AND Enter the team area.

[josephrt1]

OK, the umpire will have to hang out and see if after the celebration she goes to touch 1st base. If she never does touch the bag and eventually enters the team area, the umpire will make the out call at that time and call all the players back onto the field for the 8th inning.

I'm fine with that position, but the key then is that the umps would have to wait and see. They can't leave the field like they could if this was an appeal situation.


PLAY 8.1-3 (ASA 2012 Case Plays)
With one out, bases loaded and the score tied in the bottom of the seventh, B5 walks on four pitches bringing in the winning run. B5 joins in the celebration and is reminded to go to 1B by a coach.

The defense appeals (a) that B5 was out of the base path, (b) that B5 was aided by a coach while the ball was in play, and (c) that B5 did not go directly to 1B. The umpires rule all runners safe once the batter-runner reaches 1B.

RULING: In (a), there is no penalty for leaving the base path since B5 was not avoiding a tag. In (b) verbal instructions are not considered aiding the runner. In (c) B5 did not enter the dugout or leave the field of play, so there is no penalty. In all cases, the run counts and the game is over. (8-1C)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

OK, the umpire will have to hang out and see if after the celebration she goes to touch 1st base. If she never does touch the bag and eventually enters the team area, the umpire will make the out call at that time and call all the players back onto the field for the 8th inning.

I'm fine with that position, but the key then is that the umps would have to wait and see. They can't leave the field like they could if this was an appeal situation.


PLAY 8.1-3 (ASA 2012 Case Plays)
With one out, bases loaded and the score tied in the bottom of the seventh, B5 walks on four pitches bringing in the winning run. B5 joins in the celebration and is reminded to go to 1B by a coach.

The defense appeals (a) that B5 was out of the base path, (b) that B5 was aided by a coach while the ball was in play, and (c) that B5 did not go directly to 1B. The umpires rule all runners safe once the batter-runner reaches 1B.

RULING: In (a), there is no penalty for leaving the base path since B5 was not avoiding a tag. In (b) verbal instructions are not considered aiding the runner. In (c) B5 did not enter the dugout or leave the field of play, so there is no penalty. In all cases, the run counts and the game is over. (8-1C)

Not waiting around field until everyone is satisfied and heads out. I will observe what happens, hesitate to see if a team coach or player is heading for me with an appeal. Shy of that, my crew is heading off the field and toward the cooler.

[josephrt1]

But this one is not an appeal play (ASA). Umpire makes this call without an appeal by the defense. Does she touch the base first or enter the team area first. Also, the defensive coach is in a catch 22 because if he tips off the ump and the offense overhears it, then the batter-runner can go and touch the base, game over.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

But this one is not an appeal play (ASA). Umpire makes this call without an appeal by the defense. Does she touch the base first or enter the team area first. Also, the defensive coach is in a catch 22 because if he tips off the ump and the offense overhears it, then the batter-runner can go and touch the base, game over.

Exactly, so just how long are you going to wait around the field looking for an out no one else is seeking?

The routine I posted (and edited) above is my game ending procedure for every game, not just this scenario.

[jmkupka]

Before you can leave (at your normal pace), DC brings it to your attention, at a volume only you can hear, so you can't continue your exit.

You can't rule her out (didn't enter DBT); most likely the teams will line up for handshakes after the celebration at the plate.

What can DC do besides tell defense to not leave their positions, and hope offense ends their celebration and enters the dugout?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Before you can leave (at your normal pace), DC brings it to your attention, at a volume only you can hear, so you can't continue your exit.

You can't rule her out (didn't enter DBT); most likely the teams will line up for handshakes after the celebration at the plate.

What can DC do besides tell defense to not leave their positions, and hope offense ends their celebration and enters the dugout?

At this point, I would call TIME since the ball is still live. I would hesitate and give the B/R a chance to complete her duties of running the bases, just like any other dead ball situation with an award. When it became apparent that the B/R was not going to run to first base, I would entertain and rule on the appeal.