runner passing preceding runner

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Corrolary question for the peanut gallery. Say it's 2 outs and 3-2 count, runner from 1st alertly steals full blast on the pitch, but runner from 2nd doesn't move. Say Runner from 2nd is a tank, horrendously slow, with two kneebraces. You are positive she would only have achieved 3rd (at best) when she is obstructed. Then after you determine this, the runner from 1st legally scores during play.

Where do you place runners, without lying and deciding after the fact that the runner from 2nd would have scored.

I have no idea how to handle this by the book. So here's what I'd make up on the field. All runners affected by obstruction are awarded the bases they would have reached if not for the obstruction. I'm giving the runner who had to go around her home and since I'm doing that I'm bringing the runner on 3rd home to score since she is forced by the award.

I think you'd have to do the same thing if you have a slow runner on first tripped up on the way to second and the rabbit like BR stretches it into a triple.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I was wondering about that also.

I know if an obstructed runner is awarded a base on which another runner already occupies, that runner would be "pushed" or forced to advance because of the award.

Now in the absence of OBS, and assuming REALLY knowledgeable players who know their teammates very well, I'd have to believe that subsequent runners wouldn't be running up their slow teammate's back, much less passing her.

So if a runner can score after a succeeding runner (or 2) has already scored (when there is OBS), I think logic states that you can keep the (slow) obstructed runner at third. If that's the base you thought she'd get without OBS, that's the award.

[MD Longhorn]

The book says that at the end of play, you place ALL runners at the bases they would have achieved absent the obstruction. Knowing I likely will have to eject home team manager, I think the only ruling supported by the book is putting R1 on third, and UNSCORING the runner from first, putting her on 2nd (and BR on 1st).

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The book says that at the end of play, you place ALL runners at the bases they would have achieved absent the obstruction. Knowing I likely will have to eject home team manager, I think the only ruling supported by the book is putting R1 on third, and UNSCORING the runner from first, putting her on 2nd (and BR on 1st).

I think you are saying that w/o the OBS, R1 would have 3rd; and both trailing runners would be stuck behind R1. So even though R2 passing R1 is not an out; that is immaterial to the bases awards.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I think you are saying that w/o the OBS, R1 would have 3rd; and both trailing runners would be stuck behind R1. So even though R2 passing R1 is not an out; that is immaterial to the bases awards.

Well, I guess that's the question. If other runners are permitted to pass an injured/OBS runner without penalty and they score during a DDB they are legally running the bases, right? If they ran the bases legally and scored, why send them back?

Maybe it's a loophole of sorts. OBS runner can push a runner forward. But can they hold up other runners? Even to the point of returning runners who have scored back to the bases?

Interesting conundrum.

[AtlUmpSteve]

It has been my understanding that the process of the award is to (first) award the obstructed runner the base that runner would have reached, and (then) all other runners affected. This mindset more correctly represents the likely outcome of your posted play had there not been obstruction, as following runners clearly could not have safely passed an unobstructed preceding runner.

The part of the rule allowing the obstructed runner to "push" a preceding runner was added to the rule and (then) POE to more fully enable the process of deciding what base award should apply at the time of the obstruction, and to NOT let subsequent play change that award. If the preceding runner stumbled, or returned to touch a missed base; well that is as much a part of subsequent play unrelated to the original obstruction and intended award as the outfielder missing the cutoff, or the cutoff bobbling the throw, or the cutoff making an errant throw which results in the obstructed runner overrunning the award.

A little wordy, I guess, but hope it makes the point clearer (as related to me by HP ~20 years ago).