ASA Rules Changes??

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Andy

The absolute earliest the umpire uniform logos could be changed is 2017.

After that, there will be a phase in period for the new uniform logo just as there was with the recent logo change. Most likely 3-4 years before the new logo is required in National Championship Tournaments.

All I know is that the scuttle butt that Junior and I have heard is that the new logos will not be ASA but will be USA and they might be here as early as 2017.

Originally Posted by teebob21

I just bought shirts and hats with the new logo. So of course there's talk of updating it yet again.

In all honesty, I'm pretty sure not a single playing participant in the game cares what font and typeface we wear on our hats/shirts/ball bags.

I do know that UICs at Nationals do care. There was at least one umpire at each of the two Nationals that Junior in which Junior umpired that did had shirts and hats with the old logos, but the tournaments needed bodies so nobody was sent home.

MTD, Sr.

[DaveASA/FED]

Rule 3-3F2 11” slow pitch starting 2017 use 52/300 ball
Rule 3-5E Delete requirement to wear chin straps in JO play
Rule 3-6 Add Coed C/D and Women’s C/D to list that only have to wear matching shirts with numbers
Rule 5-8A Delete inning ending out for a home run in E/Rec. Now it is just an out.
Rule 7-1A All JO fast pitch can now use either on deck circle.
Rule 8-9B2 All adult slow pitch except seniors can have a courtesy runner. Any eligible player on the official line-up, including available substitutes may be used as a courtesy runner. One CR only may be used per inning. Seniors will continue to use their CR rule.


Also the branding discussion. As mentioned at the earliest the new umpire uniforms will be available is 2017. That was mentioned with the understanding that the BOD has to approve the new logo by early 2016 in order for the manufactures to have time to fill the pipeline with new logo items for the 2017 season. As they did with the current new ASA logo (yes it is weird to have a discussion about two "new" logos at the same time) it will be phased in over a number of years. As mentioned 2017 is the earliest umpires can purchase the USA logo, it won't be mandatory until most likely 2020 to coincide with the hopeful return of Softball to the Olympics.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I don't know why women's slow pitch continues to have to use the 11" ball.

They grew up from 12U thru HS and college using the 12" ball and now they need to use a smaller ball?? Crazy.

It would certainly help speed up co-ed games if both genders would hit the 12" ball.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Regarding the CRs for slow pitch, who picks who the runner will be?

Most league bylaws simply have whoever made the last out serve as the CR.

If the CR is on base and is due to bat, can someone else be the CR? Or would the original runner have to go back in? Can't have a CR for a CR, right?

If the defense gets to pick, they'd obviously opt for the slowest runner. But what if the guy/gal they pick would require a CR themselves?

If the offense gets to pick, they're always going to put in their rabbit. Seems like a roster opportunity to get someone on the team whose job will be to run for someone every half-inning.

[BretMan]

Is there some sanctioning body somewhere that lets the defense pick the courtesy runners?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Rule 3-3F2 11” slow pitch starting 2017 use 52/300 ball
Rule 3-5E Delete requirement to wear chin straps in JO play
Rule 3-6 Add Coed C/D and Women’s C/D to list that only have to wear matching shirts with numbers
Rule 5-8A Delete inning ending out for a home run in E/Rec. Now it is just an out.
Rule 7-1A All JO fast pitch can now use either on deck circle.
Rule 8-9B2 All adult slow pitch except seniors can have a courtesy runner. Any eligible player on the official line-up, including available substitutes may be used as a courtesy runner. One CR only may be used per inning. Seniors will continue to use their CR rule.


Also the branding discussion. As mentioned at the earliest the new umpire uniforms will be available is 2017. That was mentioned with the understanding that the BOD has to approve the new logo by early 2016 in order for the manufactures to have time to fill the pipeline with new logo items for the 2017 season. As they did with the current new ASA logo (yes it is weird to have a discussion about two "new" logos at the same time) it will be phased in over a number of years. As mentioned 2017 is the earliest umpires can purchase the USA logo, it won't be mandatory until most likely 2020 to coincide with the hopeful return of Softball to the Olympics.

This is a stupid rule change passed by people who do not umpire.

MTD, Sr.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

This is a stupid rule change passed by people who do not umpire.

MTD, Sr.

MN has used a rule for several years in both JO and HS that requires the on-deck batter to use the on-deck circle behind the batter. The rationale is safety. I suppose there is some decrease in the chances of getting hit by a foul ball with this... but it is not a big deal at all for umpires.

I don't understand the rationale for the new ASA change, though.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Dakota

MN has used a rule for several years in both JO and HS that requires the on-deck batter to use the on-deck circle behind the batter. The rationale is safety. I suppose there is some decrease in the chances of getting hit by a foul ball with this... but it is not a big deal at all for umpires.

I don't understand the rationale for the new ASA change, though.

There is not logical rationale for this rule change.

Baseball and softball at all levels (high school, college, and professional) has always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirely, it is a basketball thing) has stated that a team's on-deck circle is on its dugout side of the field. And while there is no requirement that an on-deck batter use the on-deck circle, if the on-deck batter chooses to use it the on-deck batter must use his or her team's on-deck circle.

The reasoning for an on-deck batter to use his or her teams' on-deck circle is three-fold: i) The on-deck batter is under close supervision of his or her teams's coaches; ii) The on-deck batter is away from the opposing team's dugout thus reducing the chances of taunting by either side; and iii) The PU knows exactly where the on-deck batter is at all times.

The "safety" excuse is a non-starter. An on-deck batter can be hit by a foul ball no matter which on-deck circle is used. Coaches need to teach their players to pay attention to the game and what is happening on the diamond at all times.

I am climbing down off my soapbox now because it is basketball season, .

MTD, Sr.

[AtlUmpSteve]

In today's game, there's a 4th reason to stay on the offensive side. With most coaches calling pitches from the mouth of the dugout, this will allow on-deck hitters to "inadvertently" get in the way. Get prepared to deal with that issue; and one more reason why the coach thinks he needs to have a bucket seat on the field.

I also call bullsh!t on the "safety" of intentionally putting on-deck batters "behind" the batter. So, all batters swing late, and that (late) batter fouling a pitch is more dangerous than the dead pull hitter ripping "her" pitch? That may make sense on the bigger and deeper baseball field where the on-deck batter is actually behind the batter, but it is stupid logic on a softball field.

So, two rules that ASA umpires have enforced forever (chin straps to keep the helmet on the head and stay on your side) are now removed, making a mockery of any prior rationale and required enforcement. One of my pet peeves in high school games has been poorly fitted helmets that are worn to NOT stay on the head, so now we get that in ASA, too. Nicely done.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

In today's game, . . .
So, two rules that ASA umpires have enforced forever (chin straps to keep the helmet on the head and stay on your side) are now removed, making a mockery of any prior rationale and required enforcement. One of my pet peeves in high school games has been poorly fitted helmets that are worn to NOT stay on the head, so now we get that in ASA, too. Nicely done.

Steve, not signaling you on this one, you just happen to be the last one that responded. Zaright-ok.

As for the on deck circles, this board is making much ado about nothing. It will be interesting how many batter will CHOOSE to use the other one. Well, maybe if they know they can steal signals .

I'm ok with the CHOICE if the batter feels safer. This has been an accepted practice and recently codified in the men's game. At the highest level, where tempers can run at the highest, there is zero problem. I'll concede that there is a measure of self-policing in that game, but I've never remotely had to deal with any issues.

Chinstraps were a good move, or at least as written. Players were not wearing them properly (snug to the chin vs. "dangling"). The helmets these days are properly fitting. Of course, I'm talking about your tournament teams, not your rec teams (and the rec leagues can still require chin straps). Is there a problem in codes (i.e. NFHS) that do not require chin straps?

[Big Slick]

There are already rules in ASA about this: Master's over 40 (and seniors, with one exception). It is rule 8-9 B and C. Therefore:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Regarding the CRs for slow pitch, who picks who the runner will be?

Offense

Most league bylaws simply have whoever made the last out serve as the CR.

See my opinion below

If the CR is on base and is due to bat, can someone else be the CR? Or would the original runner have to go back in? Can't have a CR for a CR, right?

No and no. CR comes off base, declared out, and takes his place at bat (8-9-C 2 Effect).

If the defense gets to pick, they'd obviously opt for the slowest runner. But what if the guy/gal they pick would require a CR themselves?

If the offense gets to pick, they're always going to put in their rabbit. Seems like a roster opportunity to get someone on the team whose job will be to run for someone every half-inning.

And to play defense every half inning as well.

IMO, the "last out CR" rule (or variation) is stupid and inane. One location uses "last batted out" which is even more stupid. Other than ASA's "no participation" rule, the best rule is ISF softball, where the person furthest to bat will be the CR (for the catcher with two outs).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Steve, not signaling you on this one, you just happen to be the last one that responded. Zaright-ok.

As for the on deck circles, this board is making much ado about nothing. It will be interesting how many batter will CHOOSE to use the other one. Well, maybe if they know they can steal signals .

I'm ok with the CHOICE if the batter feels safer. This has been an accepted practice and recently codified in the men's game. At the highest level, where tempers can run at the highest, there is zero problem. I'll concede that there is a measure of self-policing in that game, but I've never remotely had to deal with any issues.

Chinstraps were a good move, or at least as written. Players were not wearing them properly (snug to the chin vs. "dangling"). The helmets these days are properly fitting. Of course, I'm talking about your tournament teams, not your rec teams (and the rec leagues can still require chin straps). Is there a problem in codes (i.e. NFHS) that do not require chin straps?

I'm not familiar with many men's fastpitch teams where a coach in the dugout calls the pitches rather than the catcher. So, the differences I see are that the men's on-deck batter really can't get in the way, and that they know how to self-police without the overreaction in the JO game.

As to the helmet and chinstrap, in my metro area there are a number of high schools that are inner-city or demographically similar in adjacent counties; and they field a softball team because the city or county insists they will. In some cases, I have been told by a coach that the only way they are fielding a team TODAY is that he/she stopped at the detention hall and negotiated a student to serve detention by playing that day so they would have 9 or 10!! Some of these "players" don't know how to put on a glove, let alone catch or hit a ball; and if you think they have a helmet that fits on that "do", well, guess again.

When these teams play each other, it is like 10U in-park rec with advances on each pitch on passed balls, and each player advances one base, overruns, comes back, stops, and then goes and retrieves the helmet; after each pitch. No chinstrap, the helmet comes off. Yeah, I know, we could try to enforce "legally and properly equipped", but in these cases, that's peeing upstream. They don't even have chinstraps to share; because NFHS doesn't require it.

So, I'm seeing that future in the rec leagues with the girls there for social reasons; and I doubt the leagues will require a chinstrap now that ASA doesn't (they already complain that "No One Else Makes Us").

That may not be an issue with you; I doubt you call much at that level at this point in your career. But I still do; as the leader/coordinator/assignor for these leagues, I have to appear from time-to-time, both as a sales call, and as the "I have to do this, too" example within my group.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

There is not logical rationale for this rule change.

Baseball and softball at all levels (high school, college, and professional) has always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirely, it is a basketball thing) has stated that a team's on-deck circle is on its dugout side of the field. And while there is no requirement that an on-deck batter use the on-deck circle, if the on-deck batter chooses to use it the on-deck batter must use his or her team's on-deck circle.

The reasoning for an on-deck batter to use his or her teams' on-deck circle is three-fold: i) The on-deck batter is under close supervision of his or her teams's coaches; ii) The on-deck batter is away from the opposing team's dugout thus reducing the chances of taunting by either side; and iii) The PU knows exactly where the on-deck batter is at all times.

The "safety" excuse is a non-starter. An on-deck batter can be hit by a foul ball no matter which on-deck circle is used. Coaches need to teach their players to pay attention to the game and what is happening on the diamond at all times.

I am climbing down off my soapbox now because it is basketball season, .

MTD, Sr.

First, I am ambivalent about the MN rule. I think any logical person would see that the ODB is less likely to get hit when behind the batter, but also any logical person would see that the ODB can still get hit anyway, so it does not remove the need to pay attention. I think even the MN powers that be that decided to use this rule even in high school would admit such. But, they are of the mind set that reducing the probability of an injury is a good thing. I have pointed out many times that if a coach (or a player) does not feel the OD circle is in a safe place, they are not required to put the ODB out there.

Much too much is made of the interfering with signals and/or taunting/jawing and the like. MN has been using this rule for a number of years now and blocking signals has happened in my games exactly once, and was easily dealt with. Taunting has happened never.

But, my main point was this is not a big deal for umpires.

[BretMan]

Just thinking out loud...

Say we have the offensive team in the first base side dugout and a right-handed batter at bat. The OD batter wants to use the opposite OD circle. Do we call time to allow her to run over to the other side of the field?

What if you have a switch hitter who switches in the middle of an at-bat? Do we need to call time to let the OD batter switch sides, too?

Anectdotal tale...the worst OD batter injury I ever saw happened when the OD batter was on the batter's "back" side. So much for it being safer...

[Dakota]

This is only how I handle it...

Originally Posted by BretMan

Just thinking out loud...

Say we have the offensive team in the first base side dugout and a right-handed batter at bat. The OD batter wants to use the opposite OD circle. Do we call time to allow her to run over to the other side of the field?

I hold the pitcher, but not formally say "TIME".

Originally Posted by BretMan

What if you have a switch hitter who switches in the middle of an at-bat? Do we need to call time to let the OD batter switch sides, too?

See above... same.

Originally Posted by BretMan

Anectdotal tale...the worst OD batter injury I ever saw happened when the OD batter was on the batter's "back" side. So much for it being safer...

"Safe" is different from "safer."

As I said above, I am ambivalent regarding the rule. It may, in fact, convey a false sense of safety.

But, in the flow of the game, in the management of the game, in the umpiring of the game, it is not a big deal.