Questions from an Outsider

[bossman72]

Hello all!

I'm a football and baseball official and I don't know very much about hockey at all. I have a couple incredibly basic questions about the referees:

1) My friend told me that the referees are the only ones that can call penalties and the linesmen only call offside, icing, and break up fights. My question is why are the linesmen restricted from calling penalties? If something happens right in front of them, they're not allowed to call it? That seems odd to me...

2) I noticed everyone has a finger pea whistle. Why no lanyards? Also, why no fox-40's (non-pea whistles)?

Thanks!

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Hello all!

I'm a football and baseball official and I don't know very much about hockey at all. I have a couple incredibly basic questions about the referees:

1) My friend told me that the referees are the only ones that can call penalties and the linesmen only call offside, icing, and break up fights. My question is why are the linesmen restricted from calling penalties? If something happens right in front of them, they're not allowed to call it? That seems odd to me...

If it's a major or match penalty (a very serious infraction where the player will be disqualified) he can go to the referee at the next stoppage and tell him what he saw. The referee then calls the penalty.

Originally Posted by bossman72

2) I noticed everyone has a finger pea whistle. Why no lanyards? Also, why no fox-40's (non-pea whistles)?

Thanks!

I don't know why they always use whistles with peas. I can't say for sure why they use finger whistles but would guess players and officials move so much faster in hockey they don't want a lanyard to get caught on someone or something.

[stratref]

Originally Posted by bossman72

2) I noticed everyone has a finger pea whistle. Why no lanyards? Also, why no fox-40's (non-pea whistles)?

While I don't officiate hockey, I think the reason for the pea whistle is acoustics. The Fox40's echo too much and get very shrill to the point of damaging the hearing of officials and players so much so that Fox40 has a special metal whistle (not sure if it has a pea) for hockey. The boards on an ice rink create such a echo that certain sounds echo for 2-3 seconds are give you a headache almost instantly.

Jasper

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Hello all!

I'm a football and baseball official and I don't know very much about hockey at all. I have a couple incredibly basic questions about the referees:

1) My friend told me that the referees are the only ones that can call penalties and the linesmen only call offside, icing, and break up fights. My question is why are the linesmen restricted from calling penalties? If something happens right in front of them, they're not allowed to call it? That seems odd to me...

It perhaps comes from the british soccer tradition (hockey was invented, depending on who you listen to, by british patriots living in Canada) of one guy in charge. Or in the early days, there was only one official on the ice (and two guys each standing behind each goal)....so, pretty much the answer is - its the way its always been.

Either way, the linesmen can report significant infractions (calling for majors an above) to the referee, but the referee ultimatly has the final decision.

2) I noticed everyone has a finger pea whistle. Why no lanyards? Also, why no fox-40's (non-pea whistles)?

Thanks!

Its quicker to get a finger whistle to your mouth. And there's no danger of it getting caught on stuff and stratngling yourself.

And Fox 40's are so shrill, you'll deafen yourself....accoustics matter not only within the rink, but within your own helmet. The Acme Thunderer gives a nice, pleasing, non-annoying sound.

[bossman72]

Thanks for the replies!

See, the "one guy in charge" concept just seems silly to me (goes for soccer too). Wouldn't it be much easier to officiate everything if all 2, 3, or 4 guys were working together as a team like the other sports? That would be like a basketball game with 2 referees just there to call out of bounds and back-court violations and 1 guy in the middle calling all the fouls.

Also, that makes sense for the whistles. I can see a lanyard getting caught on a stick or something and I kind of assumed the pea whistles were because the fox 40's were too loud, but I figured I would ask.

Another observation - maybe it's the football guy in me but I like the referees getting mic'd up to announce penalties. However, in the games I've been to, the audio has been terrible and you can barely hear them or the organist would be playing over top of their voice. I like the idea, they just need to refine their process.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Thanks for the replies!

See, the "one guy in charge" concept just seems silly to me (goes for soccer too). Wouldn't it be much easier to officiate everything if all 2, 3, or 4 guys were working together as a team like the other sports? That would be like a basketball game with 2 referees just there to call out of bounds and back-court violations and 1 guy in the middle calling all the fouls.

Also, that makes sense for the whistles. I can see a lanyard getting caught on a stick or something and I kind of assumed the pea whistles were because the fox 40's were too loud, but I figured I would ask.

Another observation - maybe it's the football guy in me but I like the referees getting mic'd up to announce penalties. However, in the games I've been to, the audio has been terrible and you can barely hear them or the organist would be playing over top of their voice. I like the idea, they just need to refine their process.

I think it works well the way it's done.

I went to an NHL game yesterday. The linesmen have a lot to do -- ruling on offsides on just about every possession (every time the puck crosses a blue line, essentially). They do assist the referees and are responsible for too many men penalties and for assisting for match/major penalties, as described above.

Soccer's the same way. One center official, very big field. Assistant referees are there to assist the center official and perform very specific duties.

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Thanks for the replies!

See, the "one guy in charge" concept just seems silly to me (goes for soccer too). Wouldn't it be much easier to officiate everything if all 2, 3, or 4 guys were working together as a team like the other sports? That would be like a basketball game with 2 referees just there to call out of bounds and back-court violations and 1 guy in the middle calling all the fouls.

Most pro games now have 2 referees, so much more gets caught.

Most minor hockey games only use two officials, both with the powers of both referee and linesmen.

1R-2L is not the only system in use, but most guys who work it like the 1R-2L....maybe its the control freaks in us The old argument always used is "consistancy" - one guy has the same standard while 2 guys my never be on the same page.

Another observation - maybe it's the football guy in me but I like the referees getting mic'd up to announce penalties. However, in the games I've been to, the audio has been terrible and you can barely hear them or the organist would be playing over top of their voice. I like the idea, they just need to refine their process.

Given that the PA announcer repeats what the referee says not 30 seconds later, I've never seen the need for NHL referees to be miked up and announce penalties at all.

[Robert Goodman]

This sort of division of responsibility is common in other sports too. It arises partly from its being easier to learn a specialized job, so more people are available for the lesser officials' positions, and there are actual distinctions between their qualif'ns.

Take the history of rugby officiating. The earliest method of officiating on record had an umpire representing each team to claim fouls. Later the referee was introduced to resolve disputes between the umpires. Then the referee took on general responsibility for the game and the umpires were replaced by touch judges whose only function was to judge their team's sideline and near goalpost.

However, the touch judges were still partisans of the teams until recently, so they weren't trusted with any further responsibility, and of course the referee could overrule them even on their calls. And rugby didn't follow the trend in American football of adding more field officials to assist the referee. But fairly recently, as (and where) more qualified officials became available, the touch judges have been staffed from the same ranks as referees and have been given progressively more authority to call violations, starting with the most serious ones, although the referee still has overall responsibility and the sole responsibility on many calls.

In boxing the timekeeper, judges, and referee have different responsibilities, although I understand in some types of boxing the referee is an additional judge.