Questions

[macandchris]

I am the interpreter of our local board and I have been asked some questions that I did not know the answers to. I would appreciate any feedback from fellow refs on these 2 questions.
1. Team A has the ball out of bounds following a made goal by Team B. The clock is running and there are 4 seconds remaining when Team A has the ball. A1 then throws the ball high into the air to run out the remaining time. The throw does not hit anything and for argument sake, let's say the throw is straight up in the air. Is this a legal play?

2. A1 (a post player) receives a pass from the wing. He feels pressure on the high side and spin baseline. He power dribbles (pushes the ball to the floor with both hands) and lays it in. Is this a legal play?

Thank you in advance for your comments. Have a great season. Chris Haynes

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by macandchris
I am the interpreter of our local board and I have been asked some questions that I did not know the answers to. I would appreciate any feedback from fellow refs on these 2 questions.
1. Team A has the ball out of bounds following a made goal by Team B. The clock is running and there are 4 seconds remaining when Team A has the ball. A1 then throws the ball high into the air to run out the remaining time. The throw does not hit anything and for argument sake, let's say the throw is straight up in the air. Is this a legal play?

Yes. I guess I could say it is legal because there is no rule against it (and actually, that is a valid reason), but here's really why. A1 has 5 seconds in which to release the ball toward the court without a violation. Since there are less than 5 seconds to go in the game, there is no violation. Certainly, he can throw the ball up in the air just the same way he could hold the ball.

2. A1 (a post player) receives a pass from the wing. He feels pressure on the high side and spin baseline. He power dribbles (pushes the ball to the floor with both hands) and lays it in. Is this a legal play?

Also yes. You may start a dribble by pushing the ball to the floor with both hands. If he did it twice, it would be a violation.

[AK ref SE]

Question 1. With only 4 seconds to go on the clock he would not even have to inbounds the ball(since he has 5 seconds to get it in....So to answer your situation.....I do not see anything in the rules that would disallow a player from throwing the ball straight up in to the air at anytime in the game.

Question 2. From what i read in the second question he is allowed to start his dribble with both hands....So yes this is a legal move....as i see it.

AK ref SE

[Richard Ogg]

Now change #1 to 7 seconds. It is still legal if the ball is thrown in such a way that it will come down and strike the floor inbounds, or one of the other 9 players. (You said "straight up" which technically would not be valid, since it would come down OOB.) If the player is smart he will watch your count and just after "4" let 'er fly, and half-way down the court.

[Marty Rogers]

The player has 5 seconds to throw the ball in bounds, directly on to the court. If he throws it straight up, and you get to your count of 5, then he has violated the 5 second rule. This release does not satisfy the 5 second requirement because the ball did not go in bounds. So, the violation is for not releasing (properly) the ball in 5 seconds.

With only 4 seconds remaining in the game, this is a moot point.

[Hawks Coach]

On the 7 second situation, Marty, I must disagree with your interpretation.

If the ball is thrown so that it will come down on the court, and the throw is made prior to the five second count, it does not matter that the ball is thrown a mile high to get down to the court, IMO. Certainly there is nothing that dictates the trajectory of the throw-in. Just that the ball be released onto the court. Certainly there are many deep passes that have high trajectories. I guess you can talk about spirit of the rules, but it does not seem illegal on face value to me.

If the ball is released straight up so that it would remain behind the OOB line, that is a different situation than was described and there would be a violation.

[just another ref]

I see nothing illegal here in either situation, but if we might dig a little deeper in situation #1. From a strategy standpoint if there are less than 5 seconds left the thing to do is grab the ball and hold it, no need to throw it anywhere. I have taken this a step farther and told kids that if you have a lead and the other team scores with 6 or 7 seconds left, don't ever even go pick the ball up. The count will probably not start for a couple of seconds, you do the math. Next question: The team that just scored will probably try to call a time-out here somewhere. When exactly do you grant it or not grant it? After a team scores it may call a time out only while the ball is dead.
(after a goal is made 7-1) The ball is at the disposal of the other team "when it is available to a player after a goal." 4-4-7d The question is when is it available? Is it not available as soon as it comes out of the net? Yet I have seen this time out granted with the ball on the floor, in the hands of the player taking it out of bounds, even after the throw in had been released. The coach may say,
"I started yelling time out while the shot was in the air."
"Yeah, coach, but I was watching the game, not you, and by the time I turned around and verified your identity, they had thrown that sucker in and were dunking on the other end." I feel that there are many time-outs granted improperly here and almost none ignored that should have been granted. Opinions of the group, please.

[Marty Rogers]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
On the 7 second situation, Marty, I must disagree with your interpretation.

If the ball is thrown so that it will come down on the court, and the throw is made prior to the five second count, it does not matter that the ball is thrown a mile high to get down to the court, IMO. Certainly there is nothing that dictates the trajectory of the throw-in. Just that the ball be released onto the court. Certainly there are many deep passes that have high trajectories. I guess you can talk about spirit of the rules, but it does not seem illegal on face value to me.

If the ball is released straight up so that it would remain behind the OOB line, that is a different situation than was described and there would be a violation.

The original question states that the player threw the ball "high into the air," which I thought meant on the OOB side of the endline. Of course, if it went over the line to the in bounds side, then no 5 second violation.

As far as the calling of time out: Either team can request time out just after a goal. This usually happens right away. When the player picks up the ball, then only his team has the right to request. If the defense doesn't ask right away (after the goal), then it's too late. In close situations, with little time left, the refs should have a clue that this will happen, and be prepared to respond. Often you will hear the coach tell a player, "Call a time out as soon as a goal is scored."

[Hawks Coach]

Marty
The first situation said that the ball was thrown straight up, but since 5 seconds did not expire, there can be no violation here. The restated question on 7 seconds left when ball is OOB and ball released at 4 seconds (the one that you and I responded to) said the ball was thrown in such a way that it would land on the court. This case is no violation because ball is releasd toward court.

So neither situation as stated above results in a violation.

A final question would be, when shot is made with 7 seconds left, how quickly do you expect the ball to be ready for play? It would be easy to take up the 2 seconds getting the ball and getting OOB to throw it in, and then hold the ball for 5 seconds. How do you personally handle this situation?

[Marty Rogers]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
A final question would be, when shot is made with 7 seconds left, how quickly do you expect the ball to be ready for play? It would be easy to take up the 2 seconds getting the ball and getting OOB to throw it in, and then hold the ball for 5 seconds. How do you personally handle this situation?

I give the player reasonable time to retrieve the ball before I start the 5 second count. Obviously, if the ball goes into the bleachers, or far off the court, they are allowed to get the ball. Even if it bounds a little away from the hoop and the player is moving or reaching for it, I will not start the count until he has the ball securely in his hands. On the other hand, if the ball has gone through, and is just sitting there in clear view, with no one attempting to pick it up, I WILL start my count. In this case, I judge that the ball is at the player's disposal. This is the same (for me) whether there are seven seconds, or seven minutes on the clock.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Marty Rogers

Obviously, if the ball goes into the bleachers, or far off the court, they are allowed to get the ball.

With 7 seconds left in a tight game and the ball goes into the bleachers after a made basket...wouldn't we want to blow the whistle and stop the clock to give the inbounder a chance to retrieve the ball for the throw-in? (Even if they were ahead and didn't necessarily want us to stop the clock, I still blow the whistle and let them retrieve the ball.) Thus, not penalizing the team behind for the ball going in the bleachers.

Dude

[Edited by RookieDude on Nov 28th, 2002 at 12:48 AM]